Should hosting companies also register domains?

floyd said:

Domains should never be registered with the hosting company. Always keep domain registration separate from the hosting.

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what absolute rubbish!

ranz said:

what absolute rubbish!

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Obviously you have never experienced registering a domain with a host that decided to keep it when you wanted to switch to a different host.

You can have your opinion about it if you want but don't dare call it rubbish because it is not. There are plenty of experiences where the above has happened. Its so easy to be safe and keep the two separate.

I know your inexperience will allow you to reply with something to the contrary but facts really cannot be ignored. It has happened. It is happening. And will continue to happen. Go over to webhostingtalk and you can read all the experiences of ones who have been taken by hosting companies offering to register domains.

For those who register your domains with your hosting company make sure you read their TOS and other statements regarding domain registration. Make sure you will be the one that owns it. May times hosts who offer free domains with hosting also own the domain when you register it. So be very very careful if you do this. Do not believe that it is rubbish.

Now this has completely gone off topic ...

Floyd don't assume.

We spend a lot of our time educating our business community of exactly the same thing.

However, if the Service Provider remains transparent and ethical - this will never happen. Lucky for us, most of our domains are Country TLD's, and have more rules and controls that prevent what you've mentioned from happening.

Yes, we register domains, and yes we register them in the client's name. However, we do it because we are a Service Provider - and there is a lot of work we do with the domain - it is in our client's interest to have it with us (we don't just do hosting).

We have found that Web Design firms are more likely to try to put Lien on their clients domains - in an effort to get them to pay bills. We certainly do not advocate this behaviour.

Most of these problems come from TLD rules - because they are so relaxed.

ranz said:

Floyd don't assume.

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I did not assume anything. I simply warn people to keep domain registration and hosting separate.

For you to say that it is rubbish is to assume that all hosting companies are going to be as ethical as you.

right back atya:

for you to say that everyone should not register domains with hosting companies is just as blatant.

And you did assume:

floyd said:

Obviously you have never experienced registering a domain with a host that decided to keep it when you wanted to switch to a different host.

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@ranz Obviously you do not think it is a valid warning. I do think people should be warned because of the bad experiences I have personally witnessed and had to deal with. I have personally had to help customers take their domain away from their former host.
Now people who read this thread can judge for themselves.

@jimzoy. You need to tell us the domain name you registered.

@floyd - Perhaps you missed that part:

ranz said:

We spend a lot of our time educating our business community of exactly the same thing.

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I just don't believe in scathing a whole industry if only a few people do the wrong thing. I'm sure there are plenty of Domain Resellers and Registrars here that use DirectAdmin would feel your warning valid - but a little "over the top".

Checking the T&Cs is always a good move with any commercial transaction.

I also see that you're passionate about this (as am I) - and I too spend at least two or three accounts per week doing the same thing:

floyd said:

I have personally had to help customers take their domain away from their former host.

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We have to respect that domains are an essential part to our industry.

I just don't believe in scathing a whole industry

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I did not feel like I did that. I do however feel like web hosting and domain registration are two different businesses and should be treated as such. That is my opinion. Others feel differently.

Doing a google search reveals many who feel the same as I do.

For those who are interested here is more info http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=626739

It also depends on what the hosting provider allows access to. We provide direct access to our Registrar via API portal. Our clients can change domain delegation and contact information from within their client login on our website.

I guess things are different in the US

ranz said:

We provide direct access to our Registrar via API portal. Our clients can change domain delegation and contact information from within their client login on our website.

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See here is the problem. If for some reason you were to go out of business suddenly and you did not care about your clients, your clients would have no idea where to go to make those changes.

Granted that is a worst case scenario and not likely to happen but it can. Its so simple and easy to prevent ANY problems by registering through an ICANN accredited registrar instead of through a hosting company. If the hosting company is ICANN accredited then that is different. But most hosting companies are simply resellers or affiliates of a registrar.

it wouldn't be - our clients know the registrar(s) we use - it is information given to them when they register/transfer their domain.

We're not a small business like you see a lot of those so-called "hosting company" - especially the ones run by 14yo kids.

If we closed, all clients would be notified via our administrative governance policy we hold with our Insurance Company. All services will be maintained until the end of contract - and clients are notified at the beginning. We set this up a few years back when we took on a few large Government clients.

I've voted yes; because we end up with lots of clients who need the hand-holding. We've got clients who in spite of education, still think hosting and domains are one and the same, and clients who just want us to manage domains. We've got one client who has us manage hundreds of domains.

We've also made it easy for our clients to get service if we disappear, though we don't intend to .

Jeff

Thanks for the Poll Jeff - it will help Floyd with his passionate points of view

I voted yes too - and of course for similar reasons.

I voted yes, seeing as we do.... However, I can see both arguements, like one customer wanted to transfer to "us" (well, our registrar we use) but the current registrar "umm'd and err'd"...... In the end, we had to change the nameservers to ours...... This was the only issue I had since....

ranz said:

Thanks for the Poll Jeff - it will help Floyd with his passionate points of view

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It does not help me at all. I am still going to protect my customers no matter what anybody else says.

ranz said:

our clients know the registrar(s) we use - it is information given to them when they register/transfer their domain.

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Then you are doing the same thing I am for the most part. You are educating them so they know who the real registrar is and they know what to do if they want to cancel their account with you or you disappear.

That is what I do. When they click the link to register a domain it takes them to a page first explaining and then the following link takes them to the registrar's page.

jeff said:

We've also made it easy for our clients to get service if we disappear

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Same thing Jeff if you have told them how to manage their domains after you are gone. We will all be gone one day. Its just a matter of time.

What I am talking about is hosting companies who pretend to be the actual registrar and keep the actual registrar hidden.

Should hosting companies also register domains? Most cannot even do it so the question is irrelevant. You have to be ICANN accredited to register domains. Otherwise the hosting company is just a reseller.

For years we have been warned to only register domains with ICANN accredited registrars. I just repeated a warning that most of us who have been around long enough have already heard.

The question is really should hosting companies pretend to also be registrars and hide the real registrar from their customers? After all that is what I was warning about.

I cannot believe such a simple statement of warning has caused such a great controversy. I wish I could go back and delete the whole thing because its just too stupid to argue over it and it has certainly been a waste of my time. I am not on a crusade to warn people. I made a simple statement in hopes that people would do their own research as to why I would make such a warning.

I am done with it. I have way more important things to worry about and do. I am so sorry I got sucked into this argument. I should have just left it alone.

floyd said:

The question is really should hosting companies pretend to also be registrars and hide the real registrar from their customers? After all that is what I was warning about.

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I agree - they should disclose that they are a reseller of xyz Registrar. That's what we do.

What was amusing to me - is that in the mail today was a letter from a Domains Renewal company - for a domain that we don't even own - but worded very similarly to one we already have. If you didn't look close, you could have sent them a check! The nasty thing about it was the price - it was insanely expensive.

This kind of thing is also a trap for young players.

I wonder the stats of how many get sucked into this.

ranz said:

What was amusing to me - is that in the mail today was a letter from a Domains Renewal company - for a domain that we don't even own - but worded very similarly to one we already have. If you didn't look close, you could have sent them a check! The nasty thing about it was the price - it was insanely expensive.

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That's one abuse of the whois database....... Scammers are everywhere, and if someone isn't clued up on technology, fraud sets into place

I voted no. Domain registration doesn't have to be done by a hosting company. While it is preferred I don't see it as a requirement.

Tell me about it! If I'm getting them, my clients are also!

I've posted quite a few warnings in newsletters about this exact topic - and I've even been on the local radio ...

what to do

floyd said:

What I am talking about is hosting companies who pretend to be the actual registrar and keep the actual registrar hidden.

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What we are is a registration service provider; I've actually seen it called that.

I don't think you can hide it these days; for example, we currently use several domain registrars; to see how to of them use whois records to list both the registrar and the registration provider, you can do a whois on both these domain names:

nobaloney.net

nobaloney.com

One is registered through an account with Dotster, and one through an account with Net Earth One.

Net Earth One uses the LogicBoxes infrastructure, so they look similar to Reseller Club, but they're not Reseller Club.

And because of our buyin with Net Earth One we can usually sell at even better pricing unless you're willing to make a huge deposit.

Should hosting companies also register domains? Most cannot even do it so the question is irrelevant. You have to be ICANN accredited to register domains. Otherwise the hosting company is just a reseller.

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I won't argue whether or not we register domains. We place orders to register domains. But I don't see anything wrong with saying we register domains as long as we don't mislead anyone.

But... if a company is ICANN accredited to register .com and .net domains (for example) and they buy all the others as a reseller of other registrars (as at least some do), they can still call themselves ICANN accredited.

Frankly ever since resellers started selling webhosting I've wanted to make sure my clients don't visit their sites.

But that's just my opinion.

There's really no reason for we original posters to write anything more on the thread except to answer questions posed by others. Maybe we can let the thread die, and eventually close it.

Jeff