Considering CloudLinux for an associate. Need your input.

[IT_Architect]

- I've been maintaining a servers and one in particular that has an old app that has not been updated. I will work with the owner on updating it to a newer version of PHP, but I could run into issues or simply size. It's hugely complex and the author hasn't maintained it in 2 decades. I could care less about the latest version of anything. PHP 4 works fine, and this app is currently at 5.4. He's not doing credit cards and nobody has been able to break in and spam with it yet.
- The owner is not going to spend $100,000+ to make a new app, which is what it would cost in time to educate the person in the industry, his vision, the coding, and adjusting to get what he wants, and educate himself to the new structure to make ongoing user modifications to the site.
- It's currently on DirectAdmin and FreeBSD. My thoughts are to get him current if possible and then put him on a managed dedicated server somewhere on CloudLinux 9 so nothing needs to change for a decade. He is not doing credit cards, and while he has several users for separation and mobility, the users are all himself. He doesn't need or want throttling because it is one main site that matters. He serves ~66 pages a second at times, which fetches remote and local data, and generates images based on the data.

I have worked a lot with FreeBSD. I've spun up an AlmaLinux server with DirectAdmin in the past and found it was no big leap, in fact if anything easier. However, I've never used CloudLinux.
- I'd like to here from people who have actually used it with DirectAdmin and those who have moved to CloudLinux.
- There are many tools out there for finding the areas in the PHP code that should be upgraded. Any recommendations on the best would be welcome.

Thanks

 

[johannes]

Cloudlinux is the developer of Almalinux, so you can expect good work. In DA you have 4 PHP-Slots, in CL more. Do you need 1 (virtual) server only with php5.4, then one DA instance is enough, it gives you 4. If you like to combine with other customers and more PHP-Slots, then go for CL.
Simply start and compare ProPack features with CL features - there are a few more in CL - do you need them?

 

[DanielP]

Yes it actually the opposite Almalinux is CloudLinux without the payed features for hosters CL does full build from RH sources even for 3rd party companies ... then it came their moment to give something back to the community when CentOS become stream OS... AmlaLinux was born ...


CloudLinux 9 installs Alt-PHP from 5,6 up (from installer wizard)... so you got to bring the app up to 5.6...or got to inquiry them what are their plans for retirement of PHP versions

CloudLinux 8 - old install has all from 4.4 up but they stop to maintain 4,4 at 2022

PHP 4.4 End-Of-Life

Stay informed about PHP 4.4 End of Life with CloudLinux. Learn the latest updates and implications of this milestone. Don't miss out on crucial information

blog.cloudlinux.com

and 5.1 at 2023

PHP 5.1 End-Of-Life

We are officially end of life-ing our support for PHP 5.1. If you check the PHP.net end-of-life schedule, it's been dead upstream for almost 17 years.

blog.cloudlinux.com

We will not be patching security vulnerabilities in PHP 5.1 beyond Apr 1, 2024



this year I do not notice message for 5.2 this year BUT in this one month old list says it starts from 5.3 for their ALT-PHP so should ask them for how long they will keep 5.4

https://cloudlinux.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/4414748358930-List-of-supported-PHP-versions

Which links to official docs where 5.1 is listed for CL8 currently but they clearly EOL it https://docs.cloudlinux.com/shared/cloudlinux_os_components/#supported-versions

and 8.3 is available but not yet listed in the docs so zendesk post should be correct one

P.S you could also get hardened php versions if you need only that from their - Imunify360 product but they are separately installed and got to be called with .htaccess (i played too little with that so I cannot give better advice)

 

[IT_Architect]

Yes it actually the opposite Almalinux is CloudLinux without the payed features for hosters

That's something I can use. The next question then would be:
Let's say I start out with AlmaLinux and DA, and if things work out fine, move it to Cloudlinux? Can that be done without starting over and reinstalling DA?

I will be doing some rearchitecting too. Among the servers we have a matched pair of SuperMicros with dual XEON E5-2690 V4s 64GB w/SAS Raid-10. The site is currently running the stars out of one of them but the other is mostly a failover, backup, so basically underutilized. They both run ESXi on the bare metal. VMware lost their mind since Broadcom bought them so I won't be upgrading it. Maybe I'll take the opportunity to toy with Proxmox too to see how they stack up to VMware from a performance and reliability perspective. I'll troll for some Proxmox expertise from some of the serious hosters first to determine the issues and if it is worldwide-24x7x365 capable and not just a home lab curiosity. VMware clobbers Hyper-V and with VMware we get better disk performance on ESXi than we do with bare metal, although a lot happens in RAM these days. I can always return to my current ESXi license since upgrading it is of little value with non-gui OSes.

 

[DanielP]

yes that is the way

That's something I can use. The next question then would be:
Let's say I start out with AlmaLinux and DA, and if things work out fine, move it to Cloudlinux? Can that be done without starting over and reinstalling DA?

Yes that is the way I prefer to install it because that yw I install alma linux then run install directadmin then run the convertor script and the go to the wizard and select what I want (years ago before wizard I run commands) but now day I become lazy and the wizard is good enough

Installation

Proxmox is super stable now days less than 5% percent of my setups are on bare metal.. I recommend it

 

[IT_Architect]

yes that is the way


Yes that is the way I prefer to install it because that yw I install alma linux then run install directadmin then run the convertor script and the go to the wizard and select what I want (years ago before wizard I run commands) but now day I become lazy and the wizard is good enough

Proxmox is super stable now days less than 5% percent of my setups are on bare metal.. I recommend it

I'll spin up AlmaLinux then.

Thanks for sharing your experience on Proxmox. I haven't used bare metal since 2008. I will never go back. Windows updates very, very seldom go sideways on you. *NIX upgrades/updates are nail biters and mess when something goes wrong. Snapshots keep servers up to date because you know you can return to where you started in minutes. I even have preconfiged VMs that I copy off and then build on them.

PS: In 2008 VMware was still owned by the original couple. The experts on the forum universally said VMware was never intended for loads like ours and that it should run on bare metal. Then I thought about it. If the purposes was to consolidate underutilized servers, then the idea is to make one server busy... Those critical on the forums folded to the logic. Then I was contacted by VMware. He said there will be a resource cost and laid out his thoughts. At first I thought, I'll put some lighter loads on it and wade in. Then I thought, no, that's backwards. Start with a site that is murder on servers. I started my testing. That's when I was suprised to learn the disk performance was way better under ESXi than bare metal which took me a while to believe and not as advertised, and as advertised, it did cost me 20% to 24% cpu under max load, not the rose-colored numbers some were touting on the forum and marketing. However, that's nothing since cores are cheap compared to servers, and as long as the OS and apps can walk and chew gum... So I put the site on it that was murder on servers to see if it would perform well and consistently and it did. I learned to think differently in terms of vCPUs and vMemory vs. CPU cores and memory, and cut it back in the VMs because a lot of processes are handled by ESXi so short-changing it had a real impact on system performance across VMs. You also do a lot more things when virtual because it doesn't cost you a bunch of money to try things or add external services or expand cpus, hard drive space, or memory. I have a couple 2003 Servers out there that automate all kinds of things from projecting NFS shares, doing updates and backups via Task Scheduler and PuTTY, and reporting the status of things, and a platform to use utilities with. A couple of times I also set up Hyper-V and XEN due to things I learned at trade shows from independent speakers and other IT people that I assumed knew what was going on. I learned they were simply drinking the Kool-Aid. VMware was in a different league. I had no reason to return to XEN, but I have deployed Hyper-V for use with Windows Servers, Exchange, and MSSQL. It is stable but those loads don't push it so I don't know where it is in terms of performance today. However, prior to Broadcom, large IT departments were paying the long dollar for VMware rather than the less expensive and easier to integrate Hyper-V so my guess is the Kool-Aid wasn't strong enough to override what they were experiencing. With what Broadcom did, and Hyper-V Server 2019 the last version of the free, standalone product, Microsoft is probably planning to do the same thing. There will be movement, and I'd guess from my reading of the recent developments with Proxmox, it is blooming att exactly the right time with features to make migration simpler and filling in some of the capabilities where it lagged to where even without full parity, it will have all most people will need. From what you said, it's worth my time to give it a whirl.

 

[DanielP]

Thanks for the long explanation of the early days of virtualization...

in 2008 I was still at the level of a junior admin running our webmastering company first dedicated rented cheaply from iweb8.com / iweb.ca at that moment - with free cPanel to it - that is why I missed on DirectAdmin for about 10 years...

I start to run Proxmox at 2014 as VMware at that moment will not install virtio driver on CloudLinux 6 - as it do not recognize it - at that moment we are already into hosing , my oldest server from that era went trough Proxmox 3, to 4 to 5 upgrade until one day died before it has the chance to become 6...

If you want to be amazed with Proxmox run it on ZFS or add a ZFS share and use storage replication for the VMs (that is super efficient ) and can run even between datacenters (on relatively large distance) and is like having ready to run snapshot it can also be used the to jump hardware with a minimal downtime ...
It is well reassuring to have 5-15 minute old copy in a reserve datacenter...


P.S. I got nostalgic for that times when companies charged $10 per month for software raid setup even if you have second drive in the server and $50 per reinstall of the OS I followed online manual how to setup sw raid on installed system and screw it... and the sysadmin that do the reinstall of OS - after noticing what I'd done before - took pity on junior me and ask me to reinstall it directly with software raid not adding the monthly fee - small gesture that make still got the soft spot for Canadian companies ...

 

[IT_Architect]

Great talking to someone with some good Proxmox experience. Thanks!