Debian

J

johnchan

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Jun 10, 2005
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Hi!

I am planning on deploying some Debian servers (which I think is the best OS, since upgrades between versions is almost seamless).

I was wondering... Debian 3.1 includes things like MySQL, Apache (and various modules), and even suphp.

Would DA work with Debian's own suphp and other packages, or does it really need to take over the system and re-compile stuff?

I guess I'm asking... is it like Cpanel, that more or less takes over the system with it's own versions of many packages, or does it work WITH the existing software and framework?

thanks in advance!
 
DirectAdmin is built to manage the hosting software itself.

You could attempt to take it apart so it wouldn't do that, but you'd be entirely on your own without any support.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
DirectAdmin is built to manage the hosting software itself.

You could attempt to take it apart so it wouldn't do that, but you'd be entirely on your own without any support.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Thanks Jeff.

Well, apart from the basics, like things like SSH, bash, various basic system utilities like "ls", "df", etc. which i dont think it will replaced, what would DA actually force to be replaced?

Is there a list anywhere, of what DA actually overwrites or installs on a Debian system?

The reason I ask, is because Debian has a very advanced "depencency" system. If you want to install a certain piece of system, it will automatically see what OTHER packages/software need to be installed, and install those first, then install your main package. I'd hate for Debian's strength to be basically made null and void, by having everything just source code built or, even worse, just forced to be overwritten.

Just a few concerns. I searched the forum here but couldn't find an anwer to these.
 
If you want specifics you might have to write to DA sales and ask them.

But, for example, everything in the customapache directories is managed by DirectAdmin, as well as other packages as well.

I've made the decision to stick with RHEL and derivatives for hosting DA, because I believe it's best integrated with that platform.

Jeff
 
Indeed, most hosting products and probably more designed for RHEL first, and Debian second (DA and Plesk, even Cpanel).

But the power of Debian is that you can upgrade between versions, and the box does not even need to be shut down or anything (until you are ready). You can upgrade and the box is up while the upgrade is done. We've got boxes here running for many years (close to 6-8 years) on Debian, and have been upgraded through the years, with minutes of downtime each (besides changing the HDs on the RAID periodically, which does not need downtime either).

You wouldn't be able to pull that off on a RedHat platform.

Thats the advantage of Debian. You could probably do the same on RedHat but it isn't as seamless.
 
My guess is that because of the Debian dependency management in order to do DA seamlessly on Debian might require a complete forked distribution, or at least it's own apt repository, because DA wants it's own versions of so many packages.

Am I right?

Or am I missing something basic?

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
My guess is that because of the Debian dependency management in order to do DA seamlessly on Debian might require a complete forked distribution, or at least it's own apt repository, because DA wants it's own versions of so many packages.

Am I right?

Or am I missing something basic?

Jeff
Click to expand...

Well, it depends if DA wants to install/overwrite over the basic Debian libraries (and other "essential" files). Presuming DA only wants to install non-OS critical files, like Apache, MySQL, etc. then DA could just release the individual packages (.deb) and just increment the version numbers (so Debian doesn't overwrite them). That is how some other people/companies have done it.

Basically, this is the beauty and power of the Debian package system. For example, if DA created a MySQL4.1-da.deb or something like that, their .deb file internally would say it is "Providing" the "mysql", "database", etc. services, and they could also say their .deb file "Depends" on "libmysql" or whatever libraries and other files it needs.

Same goes for Apache.

That way, for example, some fool would not be able to then go and install a different web server software or a different version of Apache, because Debian's system would see that there is already a program/software providing the "webserver" service, and would prevent the person from overwriting DA's apache.

Great, isn't it?

This way, DA would integrate directly with Debian, it would not fight it, PLUS they won't HAVE to have a complete package repository, they could just release individual files, and maybe just write a simple script (heck, even i could do it) that would "dpkg -i" the new/updated files every once in a while.

Maybe they already do this?
 
debian as a bunch of very nice features that becomes perfectly useless when you trust the DA software management.

plus, with the yum tool, you can upgrade the rest of the system as easely as with apt-get.


I really don't see the so big need of debian so much poeple have.

I have customers here ready to develop or use a tricky free panel, just because they want debian..
Having used both redhat and debian, I really don't see any REAL difference when you use it for an hosting purpose with a control panel taking care of the software updates.
 
Just an idea, DA doesn't handle package management, only at the setup state.

What if:
1. You install those default Debian services etc.
2. You download the correct files for DA to setup, but you stop the installation process and make sure DA doesn't install it's own start packages.
3. You take an existing DA / Debian server and try to find the config differences and sync them in a way DA can understand it.
Stuff like Bind and Apache aren't that hard, but the problems will most likely start to appear with Exim.

I really don't know if this would work, but if it would, you'd have an easy to manage server farm quite fast. However stability might be an issue if DA changes too much...
 
If i'm correct, that is what Plesk for Debian does... it doesn't fight the package system, it works with it. Right now, in fact, it uses the stock Apache software from what I can see...
 
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