How to create an email alias (many-to-one, not one-to-many)

[Sygmoral]

Greetings,

how can email aliases be created?

In my own email account, I also want to receive the emails that are directed to support@, abuse@, info@, etcetera. I do NOT however want a catch-all, that's something else. I want to specify about 10 extra email addresses that should arrive at my email address.
Alternatively, you could think of the following situation: my email account might be j.doe, but I also want john.doe@ and john@ to arrive in the same mailbox.

I realise I can probably achieve this in the "Forwarders" screen: create a new forward for every of those addresses, and put my own email address (or just the account name) as destination. But this feels like a detour, it's not very intuitive: these forwards are completely seperate from my email account, while I believe it makes sense for them to be a property of that account. I believe the 'forwarders' are mostly designed for one-to-many, while I need many-to-one.

Any thoughts? Or is this already a feature request somewhere?

 

[zEitEr]

Hello,

I'm just curious how can it be any other way without using forwarders? If you're completely against using forwarders, then I guess you should create those email boxes and use for example fetchmail or sieve plugin to redirect all incoming emails from those emails to your single email box.

But if to go absolutely another way, you might want to use a free or paid helpdesk solution to manage tickets and get notifications about incoming emails into your personal mailbox. I could suggest Cerberus Helpdesk, but its price might be too high, though you can use it for free for unlimited period of time, read this http://cerberusweb.com/book/latest/installation/guided_installer.html?highlight=free#register

 

[nobaloney]

I'm just curious how can it be any other way without using forwarders?

There isn't, not even at the pseudocode level (the level at which you describe to the email system what you want to code). Either you specify everything (which is what the catchall does), or you specify the specific local parts. At the program code level using exim's delivery mechanism, a forward and an alias are the same, since the differentiation between local and off-server delivery is handled separately.

Jeff

 

[Sygmoral]

Thank you for your answers.
I understand that the mechanism of a forward is probably the only way to achieve what I want - but my issue is rather with the DirectAdmin interface, not so much with functionality. It would be handier to be able to create aliases for my mailbox from the page where I can see that mailbox, instead of having to create something called 'forwards' somewhere else.
I realise this may sound silly for people that are used to do it this way, but I have used many control panels where I could always set aliases as a property of the account itself, rather than as a setting under the whole mailing system.

Under the main Email Management, it makes sense to me to create 'mailing lists' (such as [email protected] being delivered to multiple accounts). But that's all I would personally expect to do at this location.
If however every person in the organization needs one or two aliases, such as j.doe, john.doe and john, then I rather be able to set these aliases under John's account, rather than in a general 'Forwarders' section on the main screen.

So it's not that I'm not able to achieve something right now; it's more of a 'feature request' I guess.

 

[nobaloney]

You leave me with a few nagging questions.

First of all, DirectAdmin already manages mailing lists, using the underlying functionality of majordomo, which while some people would say has passed it's prime (I'd say it's mature, hqving gone without change for many years), is still good for simple discussion lists. Are you suggesting DirectAdmin also include a simple alias system for creating simple distribution lists?

And second, what do you mean by John's account as you call it? Do you mean the specific john@ email account? Or do you mean john as the site-owner account holding john.com? If the latter, then I still don't understand the structure you envision, and if the former, then know that there's no easy way to implement this because in DirectAdmin there's no such thing as an email user but only a virtual email box which has no connection with any other email address, whether email box, forwarder, catchall or mailing list.

I've moved this thread; it's now a feature request.

Jeff

 

[Sygmoral]

Thank you for your feedback.

I admit that I started this thread as a question, but while writing the post, figured out a way to make these 'aliases' I wanted. So I got what I wanted, but wanted to suggest an easier way to get there, in case someone else encountered the same situation, and also to obtain a better overview. That's how it ended up being a feature request in a wrong forum.

Concerning majordomo and other systems - I can not really claim to know how the mailing systems work. I merely speak as a (admin) user of DirectAdmin. To me however, it looks like no piece of software needs to be added: it looks like the current "E-mail forwarder" functionality suffices to introduce an 'alias' option.

By John's account, I mean a collaborator of an organization. I used the example to show that it's not only to forward general email addresses such as info@ and support@, but also just for regular users who may want multiple addresses that go into the same mailbox.

If I have 25 collaborators, each with one or two aliases, then it is cumbersome to manage these in the 'Forwarders' screen because they're all in one long list. The suggestion to obtain 'alias functionality' would be to create a filtered version of this list under everyone's mail account: show all forwards that have an email address / Value column that matches with the email account being viewed. Call that list 'aliases'. Then when a new 'alias' is created, just create a forwarder behind the screen that forwards the alias to this email account.
This way, it's only about adding something to the web interface, so it doesn't really do any harm anywhere.

That's about as concrete as I can get in my suggestion, I suppose.

Best regards,
Joris

 

[nobaloney]

Traditionally, in the past, the word alias was used to reference the same server:

For example, where example.com is on this server:

[email protected]
      [email protected]
      [email protected]

whereas a forwarder was meant to be used to reference a different server.
For example, where example.com is on this server and example.org and example.net are on different servers:

[email protected]
      [email protected]
      [email protected]
      [email protected]

Years ago I used Sendmail and my recollection is that Sendmail implemented them differently and separately, and some control panels (Cobalt RaQ and Plesk come to mind) did as well.

But the DirectAdmin/Exim combination implements them as the same feature, as local vs remote delivery is handled separately at the delivery level, and all email is sent through the delivery routers.

The part of your request I don't understand is where you want this. DirectAdmin doesn't have an email-user level (there is an email level plugin; look here, but it's been in beta a long time and it still doesn't handle forwards/aliases), so it's not easy to give a user a place to log in and manage his own email accounts. Are you suggesting that an email level be added as a standard feature? Or that forwarder/alias management be added to the plugin? Or that the site administrator have an easier way to set up forwards/aliases?

Jeff

 

[Sygmoral]

I am mainly suggesting the latter:

[...] that the site administrator have an easier way to set up forwards/aliases?

I don't really believe users should be able to make aliases for themselves, except maybe if it was limited to a small amount. But that would be something to consider in that plugin then.
So I am indeed talking about the administrator interface. Something to make it easier for administrators to set up email address aliases for the users.

I understand what you say about the difference between alias and forwarder, and that is also how it feels to me, intuitively. That is precisely why it is a bit weird for me to go to the forwarder interface in order to create an alias, even though it is possible - it may not be technically the same, but the end result is the same. That's why I suggested simply using the forwarder functionality to implement aliases.

Best regards,
Joris

 

[nobaloney]

On DirectAdmin they are technically the same as well as logically the same; it's in your perception (are you an old-timer like me ?) that they're not the same.
So can you give us a complete explanation of exactly how you want to see it implemented, and tell us where?

We can leave the topic open for discussion for a while and see if anyone else is interested in it.

Jeff

 

[Sygmoral]

On DirectAdmin they are technically the same as well as logically the same; it's in your perception (are you an old-timer like me ?) that they're not the same.

Well, goodie then! As for old-timer, not sure I can be considered that (although who knows, in internet years?..): I've only been doing this since after the www became popular, I think about 12 years. I just think the words alias and forwarder simply ... mean that. Oh well.


I went into the control panel so that I can explain precisely what I mean. I only discovered DirectAdmin a few weeks ago, so I may not navigate in the most rapid way - but here goes:

1. I log in as admin, click on 'User Level', then on example.com.
2. Under E-Mail Management, nothing necessarily needs to change. The order of those links could change, but that's another thing ... I'll just put it here anyway:
   

   E-Mail accounts      Forwarders
   Catch-All E-Mail     Mailing Lists
   
   Autoresponders       SPAM Filters
   Vacation Messages    Spamassassin Setup
   
   MC Records           Webmail: Squirrelmail
                        Webmail: Roundcube

   Yay, better overview!
3. So anyway, I click on 'E-Mail Accounts'. Currently, this is a single list, there's not really a way to go "into" an email account. I guess, in order to have a place to set up aliases, it will need a subpage. So let's make the email address clickable, and then I'll click on [email protected].
4. Nice to have would be if this overview repeats the information from the list, so that this functionality is also accessible here, since you'd expect to find all information related to this email account here (login, usage, suspended status, password/quote, outlook settings).
   In addition:

   [x] Mailbox
   [x] Email forwarding: [[email protected]]
   
   Aliases:
   [john.doe    ] [Delete]
   [john        ] [Delete]
   [            ] [Add]

   • The Mailbox checkbox simply sets whether email should be stored in the mailbox. It may not need to be, when the 'Email forwarding' field is set. You could argue you don't need a mailbox at all then, only a Forward, but perhaps the email needs to be temporarily redirected to another (off-domain) email address, while the old email is kept in the mailbox.
     Just an extra suggestion, only because I've seen this in other places.
   • The Forwarder checkbox is automatically checked when something is filled in there (which may make it redundant, but it's visually nice to have, and consistent with the Mailbox checkbox). That's in case someone really loves their Gmail account and wants to get their email there instead. If he doesn't want the mailbox over here, then it would have sufficed to just make a forward instead of an actual mail account, but maybe he likes having both (the mailbox to comply with his organization and to receive mail on his working desk, and the gmail so he can access the email over there as well).
     So this field accepts whatever the Destination Email field accepts on the existing Forwarders > Create new E-Mail Forwarder form, and upon submitting creates a Forward with the account name (j.doe) as Forwarder Name, and the Email forwarding field as Destination Email.
   • Submitting a new alias creates a Forwarder that uses this field as the Forwarder Name, and uses [mailaccount]@[domain] as Destination Email.
5. Back on the original Forwarders screen, I'm still in doubt whether this overview should still include all the Forwarders that can be set in this new interface. The greatest I suppose would be if they were hidden by default, but can be shown upon clicking a button or checking a checkbox.

That's about it, I believe. Oh and, perhaps it's interesting to mention somewhere on the mail accounts page (or on the 'Modify mail account' page) that users can change their password on http://www.example.com:2222/CMD_CHANGE_EMAIL_PASSWORD. At least, as long as there is no Email Level. I can imagine that's a common request (and more secure than having to email the admin with your desired password).


In general, if I may say so, DirectAdmin has a great host of features, all the ones I need as far as I know; but it could use some polishing in the providing of these features (overview, accessibility, usability). This post is a suggestion which may help to move it in that direction. I don't think these changes are very dramatic, but feel like they improve the usability of the E-Mail Management section by a good margin (not in the least, in fact, that simple re-order of links on the cmd_show_domain page).


Best regards,
Joris

 

[Sygmoral]

Actually I just realised there is already a subpage for each email address, namely when clicking on 'change' (in the password column). It's not clear though that you can change the account name there, and it would be a bit cumbersome to rename that coumn to account name / password / quote. So I would just remove that column, and put that link onto the email address in that overview (and add the features I mentioned above, of course )

Joris

 

[nobaloney]

My reply to message #10 above would be only that what you're suggesting appears to me to be very much removed from the way the back end of the email system is built; I'm not going to suggest if it's doable or not, because I didn't write DirectAdmin. To some extent, to me, it appears to be similar to how Plesk works, and frankly, I never found the Plesk interface to be intuitive. But of course that's just me. In DirectAdmin (and to some extent in the Exim backend) aliases are forwarders, and forwarders are totally separate from mailboxes, so tying them together in any way would be building a redundan superstructure. Again, that's my point of view, and your mileage may vary.

Moving on to message #11, first, before anything else, changing, what do you mean by changing the account name? There's no account; there's a virtual email address, either attached to a forward or a mailbox. Again, creating an account seems redundant, and an unnecessary superstructure. And in my opinion (yes, mine, not anyone else's), it would do nothing more than completely hide the forwarders from the site admin's view, from the reseller's view, and from the server admin's view, making it a bit harder to check for compromised accounts sending spam, etc., or just to see what's set up on the server. This is how Plesk did it years ago (which I didn't like) and may still do it (in which case I still wouldn't like it).

If anyone else is interested in this feature change to DirectAdmin, please post.

Jeff

 

[Sygmoral]

With 'change account name', I meant 'change the email address' - the user part. I simply called it 'account name' because it's what people use to login to their mailbox. Account is such an ambiguous word anyway.

It's currently one of the three possibilities under the 'Change' screen: you can change the user part of the email address (j.doe to john.doe), the password, and the mailbox quota.

The original suggestion is to provide a quick access here to forwarders that are related to this email address. That's all really. It sounds like you still believe I want to change various structures, but I don't mean any of that: only a 'view', a window to functionality that already exists elsewhere. The same forwarders can also still perfectly appear in the 'general' Forwarders screen. As noted in my 5. in message #10, I wasn't all sure about what to do with the existing Forwarders screen, but it can just stay the way it is.

The only change is that any Forwarders that are related to a certain email address, appear alongside it so that you can quickly find them, and that additional forwarders (or aliases) can also be created from there. In my message #10 I described how this would look for the DirectAdmin user, and I still believe this does not require any structural changes. Only a filtered view on the Forwarders, and a copy of the submit form for a new Forwarder (with one field pre-filled in, either the user (for email forwarding to an external host) or the destination email (for an alias)).

 

[nobaloney]

I guess I'd forgotten that DirectAdmin has allowed email address name changes; I've edited my post. I supose it's okay if you keep calling a virtual email address an account, though DirectAdmin doesn't treat it that way. It might be a bit confusing to some of us but I'll try to remember.

I understand now what you want and why, but this has been a discussion between us, and no one else has posted any interest. So now it's time for me, anyway, to stay out of the thread for a while to see if anyone else shows interest. I shall try to refrain from posting in this thread until we see if others are interested.

Jeff