Mailman instead of / in addition to Majordomo?

S

SlashChick

Verified User
Joined
Oct 14, 2003
Messages
48
Hello,

Majordomo is pretty cumbersome for end users (especially when the documentation on site-helper.com doesn't really shed any light on the parameters.) :)

Is there a chance that you guys could install Mailman instead of or in addition to Majordomo? This is the system that most of our users are familiar with.

The per-domain SpamAssassin settings are a higher priority, but I was curious about this.

Thanks!
 
SlashChick said:
Hello,

Majordomo is pretty cumbersome for end users (especially when the documentation on site-helper.com doesn't really shed any light on the parameters.) :)

Is there a chance that you guys could install Mailman instead of or in addition to Majordomo? This is the system that most of our users are familiar with.

The per-domain SpamAssassin settings are a higher priority, but I was curious about this.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

I second the motion!!!

Thanks
 
I'm not a fan of Mailman (or at least, another panel provider's implementation of it :D ) - why not suggest (and this is something that could be implemented easily) that the documentation for majordomo be improved?
 
Bloory,

Since you say it's so easy, I look forward to your documentation for us :) .

Jeff
 
:P

Fell into that one!

Hey, I'm the guy who stopped his CPanel clients accessing Mailman, I'm no fan of that. I never liked it's documentation either.

Just thought that MajorDomo might be better explained than replaced? Or is it CPanel meddling with Mailman that makes it seem harder ot use?
 
I don't know what it is about Mailman you don't like, and I've never used CPanel.

I've used Majordomo for about 130 years now (actually more like 10) and I certainly know it's limitations.

The documentation for Mailman can be found here.

The majordomo website can be found here.

But majordomo documentation isn't found in any one place.

The majordomo man files are included with the DA distribution:

in man1:
approve
bounce
bounce-remind
digest
resend

and in man8:
majordomo

But they haven't been installed properly so you can't just read them with the man command.

You can move or copy the files yourself if you wish:

Move the files in /etc/virtual/majordomo/man/man1 to /usr/local/man/man1, and the files in /etc/virtual/majordomo/man/man8 to /usr/local/man/man8.

Or, under this line in /etc/man.config:

#MANPATH /usr/share/coas/man

add a new line:

MANPATH /etc/virtual/majordomo/man

and save the file.

Then you'll be ble to read the majordomo man files.

For even better information you might want to check out the majordomo-1.94.5/Doc files; you can find them by unpacking the majordomo-1.94.5.tar.gz file in a directory of your choice and changing to the majordomo-1.94.5/Doc directory. You can get a copy of the majordomo-1.94.5.tar.gz file here.

Perhaps the only file you'll need, though is sample-list-owner-info.

Each new mailing list owner should get a copy of list-owner-info customized for his/her new list. You can get a sample copy of list-owner-info here.

As you can see, Bloory, I wouldn't ask you to do anything I haven't already done myself :) .

Jeff
 
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If not Mailman, how about Listproc?

The stripping of attachments without a bounce that DA's majordomo does is problematic for some of my users.
 
Pending arrival of Mailman from whom?

If you're waiting for the DA programers to integrate it into DA you might have a long wait, as there are a lot of other requests instead of this one.

Why don't you just install it yourself?

You could even figure out how to integrate it using custom skins.

If you need a testbed server to try it on you could ask me for access to one :) or you could rent one at a very low monthly rate from http://www.tektonic.net/.

Jeff
 
Poor Attitude!

jlasman said:
Pending arrival of Mailman from whom?

If you're waiting for the DA programers to integrate it into DA you might have a long wait, as there are a lot of other requests instead of this one.

Why don't you just install it yourself?

Jeff
Click to expand...

I disagree.

The point here is that DA provided functionality in their product as part of a complete package for its customers to use. Customers have the rightful expectation that when you sell them a something this robust it is complete. That means a well defined product, tested fuctionality, and above all solid documentation.

Clearly, this is not the case.

DA's implementation of Majordomo (capabilities, documentation, & web-tools) is incomplete. The arguement that insuffient software staff exists as an excuse for these short comings is a weak argument at best, and frankly bad customer service. If DA lacks the staff to make the current product function, then why was this feature added to the product in the first place?

Projects are scaled based on resouces available at the time. If they knew they took on to much, they should have scaled back on features to match the available resources. Every company does this - its business 101.

Pawning off the responsibility to the hosting company (DA customer) or worse, the end user (also a DA customer) is unacceptable. DA must take responsibility and customer service/satisfaction seriously. They should make strides to offer solutions that work and are complete all the while building relationships with its customer base that promotes good will.

I don't expect you to preform this duty as your an engineer and may not even work for DA. But the people who's jobs it is at DA to maintain good customer service/satisfaction should be very concerned by the poor attitudes and (frank) rudeness expressed on these forums towards the customers.

Customers (of all types) come to these forums seeking help, compassion, and support. Not smug attitude, insults, or down right hostility.

My two cents...

-M
 
I would vote for an greatly improved mailing list tool

I need to create email lists, that are NOT public i.e.
- only the list administrator can add members
- only members can post

I also need an email archive that is accessible through web to mailing list members (and even future members must be able to see all posts from day zero onwards).

This doesn't seem to be possible in DirectAdmin. Our mailing list admins are and will be non-technical people and they must be able to use the system efficiently after a five minute introduction to how to log in to the account... This is not a hobby. We want to use, not play.

The DirectAdmin mailing list tool just sucks.

ps. most other parts of DirectAdmin are rather impressive, though.
 
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temp said:
I would vote for an greatly improved mailing list tool

I need to create email lists, that are NOT public i.e.
- only the list administrator can add members
- only members can post

I also need an email archive that is accessible through web to mailing list members (and even future members must be able to see all posts from day zero onwards).

This doesn't seem to be possible in DirectAdmin. Our mailing list admins are and will be non-technical people and they must be able to use the system efficiently after a five minute introduction to how to log in to the account... This is not a hobby. We want to use, not play.

The DirectAdmin mailing list tool just sucks.
Click to expand...

You can do what you are talking about, to restrict posting to only subscribed users, you should put the mailing list name in the "Restrict Post" field.

The "Subscribe Policy" should be closed or closed+confirm, but for some reason DA changes that to open+confirm, which I do think is a bug. If you have admin privs, you could just change the /etc/virtual/${domain}/majordomo/lists/${listname}.config and change it manually. closed will mean that every user needs to be approved by the admin, and confirm means that the user must confirm that they really want to join the list, by clicking on a link emailed to them by majrodomo.
 
Bloory said:
I'm not a fan of Mailman (or at least, another panel provider's implementation of it :D ) - why not suggest (and this is something that could be implemented easily) that the documentation for majordomo be improved?
Click to expand...

Me neither. I hope it never shows it ugly head in DA. Its a biggest pain in the arse software we have ever had the pleasure dealing with. Nothing but problems. Im glad to get rid of Mailman after moving from Cpanel. Thats all she wrote.
 
toml said:
You can do what you are talking about, to restrict posting to only subscribed users, you should put the mailing list name in the "Restrict Post" field.
Click to expand...

No, I cannot. When I click on "create mailing list" in DirectAdmin v1.28.0, I am prompted for a name for the mailing list. Nothing more. Then the list is created. There is no "Restrict Post" field. There is absolutely no options for controlling privacy in any way.

The "Subscribe Policy" should be closed or closed+confirm, but for some reason DA changes that to open+confirm, which I do think is a bug.
Click to expand...

We would consider that to be a major security and privacy issue to our members.

If you have admin privs, you could just change the /etc/virtual/${domain}/majordomo/lists/${listname}.config and change it manually.
Click to expand...

Well, the problem here is that our mail admins are ordinary people that have never used a command line and are not capable of safely editing technical configuration files. They are mail admins, not computer specialists (that's why we want to use DirectAdmin).
 
temp said:
No, I cannot. When I click on "create mailing list", I am prompted for a name for the mailing list. Nothing more. Then the list is created. There is absolutely no options for controlling privacy in any way.
Click to expand...
You need to click on the "view" link for that mailing list, then you will see some text above the list that reads "To change list and digest settings, click here", you need to click the part that says "click here", that brings up the configuration screen for majordomo.

Well, the problem here is that our mail admins are ordinary people that have never used a command line and are not capable of safely editing technical configuration files. They are mail admins, not computer specialists (that's why we want to use DirectAdmin).
Click to expand...
I understand you like to use DirectAdmin because it makes a lot of things simple, but it should not replace the NEED for a systems administator or someone with a decent level of *nix experience.
 
Thanks! That was helpfull :)

I have now finally found the mailing list settings. They were not easy to detect, although they were visible on the page... I did even read all of the documentation on site-helper.com, but I did not pay attention to the relevant part. I'm terribly sorry...

Some usability improvements (more buttons instead of hyperlink text) would indeed be needed. And instructions on the config page (to tell what open, closed, list,... mean). Many of the options are horribly cryptic. "Mungedomain", for example. WTF does that mean? (ok, I can find out that but not the end users).

I am setting up this system for someone else and then it will be used and maintained by end users that have no money to pay to a professional (more than what they do now to the web hotell).

NEED for a systems administator or someone with a decent level of *nix experience
Click to expand...

That is true for web hotel owners, but we are talking about an end user tool...

Yahoogroups was "too complicated to understand"

Have you ever heard of "web 2.0", a place where anyone can publish? These people just want to create web sites, mailing lists etc. just like they create documents in Word. They asked me, the professional, to provide them with a system that "anyone" can use. DirectAdmin is rather end user friendly, but not quite enough. It still lets people mess with DNS records, doesn't explain all settings and so on...


Next I need to figure out how to archive the email list and how to give logged in list members browse access to the full archive (I know that such tools exist). It is a pity, that those does not come with DA by default.

About security:

Does DirectAdmin really store and send the list passwords to majordomo as plaintext? Isn't that a risk? And I guess that majordomo lets anyone try 10.000.000 passwords per second, so the passwords are probably useless anyway...
 
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Bloory said:
I'm not a fan of Mailman (or at least, another panel provider's implementation of it :D ) - why not suggest (and this is something that could be implemented easily) that the documentation for majordomo be improved?
Click to expand...
The documentation for Majordomo can be found here. If you want to help with Majordomo documentation you can start by joining the Majordomo documentation mailing list documented here.

Jeff
 
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