What are the issues with installing FreeBSD 12.2 today?

I

IT_Architect

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I need to do another FreeBSD VM install. There were install issues the last time I tried. Does it install normally now and what prerequisits are necessary or recommended. I'll but running Apache, MySQL, and PHP-FPM 5.x and 7.x

Thanks!
 
k1l0b1t said:
Just so you know, Directadmin will stop supporting BSD soon.
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That's is only an assumption but I do understand the basis as I've been following the threads here. I didn't want to go Plesk and Windows but that may be what happens.
 
IT_Architect said:
That's is only an assumption
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Not it's not. This doesn't look like an assumption to me but a hard date of end of support:

FreeBSD: End-of-life for all FreeBSD Operating Systems: January 1st, 2022

Hello, We have no regrets with our longtime support of FreeBSD, especially when others refused to do so. However, demand has virtually ceased and we do not feel justified in using development resources on a product that has reached a nearly 0% order rate. We're officially announcing...
forum.directadmin.com forum.directadmin.com

Since you've been following the threads, I don't quite understand why you still call it an assumption?

I know you're experienced but do you really think that Plesk with Windows is better for hosting then DA (or Plesk or whatever) with a Linux distro?

However as for your installation, maybe @bdacus01 will have some tips for you as he's also using FreeBSD.
 
Richard G said:
Not it's not. This doesn't look like an assumption to me but a hard date of end of support:

FreeBSD: End-of-life for all FreeBSD Operating Systems: January 1st, 2022

Hello, We have no regrets with our longtime support of FreeBSD, especially when others refused to do so. However, demand has virtually ceased and we do not feel justified in using development resources on a product that has reached a nearly 0% order rate. We're officially announcing...
forum.directadmin.com forum.directadmin.com

Since you've been following the threads, I don't quite understand why you still call it an assumption?

I know you're experienced but do you really think that Plesk with Windows is better for hosting then DA (or Plesk or whatever) with a Linux distro?

However as for your installation, maybe @bdacus01 will have some tips for you as he's also using FreeBSD.
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Not it's not. This doesn't look like an assumption to me but a hard date of end of support:
Because I didn't see that at all. What I saw is that it is a very small amount of their market.

I know you're experienced but do you really think that Plesk with Windows is better for hosting then DA (or Plesk or whatever) with a Linux distro?
I've used Plesk before and I'm not a great fan of it, but it's competent. As far as the OS goes, if Windows can handle the loads, then yes. With Windows you can upgrade it for 10 years, and spool off the maintenance to the user who will be inheriting the busy sites. Things don't break when you do updates, etc. My efforts are going toward working with orphan kids around the world.

What DA needs is a Windows product.
 
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IT_Architect said:
Because I didn't see that at all.
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Ah oke. Then I understand. I was just wondering because you said you had been following the threads here. That clears things up.

Indeed Plesk is competent, but with Windows?
I never worked with Windows for server before, but on the desktop I've seen Windows updates breaking things often enough. :) But that might not be the same as with servers, I don't know.
Only thing I know is that Linux is free and using less resources then Windows and more stable (imho at least). However if you can work better with that than with Linux, I can understand.

IT_Architect said:
My efforts are going toward working with orphan kids around the world.
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That seems very nice and kind to me!

Thank you for your insight and explenation.
 
Windows is very stable. Two years ago we shut down the last Windows 2000 Server and it was still running fine. We have two 2003 Servers on the SoftLayer VPN now that do all of the maintenance scheduling and backups of the FreeBSD boxes and do the VM backups every night by publishing NFS volumes. When there has been a hardware issue we've even run the VMs from the backups on the 2003 Server NFS volumes and they performed well. Locally, all of our customers are on Windows servers, and some as old as SBS 2008 and these are in critical roles where if they are down, the company is down. They also run Exchange and manage the desktop security. They insure that the desktops, show you which are not, and you can control which updates they get and when. I have had only two instances in 22 years where an update screwed up a server. One messed up a process and an update the following day corrected it. The other was doozy that screwed up the OS so bad I had to do a total restore. In the *NIX it happens a lot more often. In BSD, I'm fine if the version doesn't change. When it does, almost everything needs to be updated. In the Windows world you can upgrade the OS and almost all of the apps still work. It is much easier to analyze loads, track hardware health, and more granular security management out of the box. It is also where the enterprise software, applications, and most of the useful utilities are.

Nobody wants to buy a desktop or server license for the web, including me, and I like being able to spin up a new VM any time I want to, but Windows, in many circumstances, is much less expensive than free, which is why business use it. It owns a lot of the web, install programs are easy to write, and maintenance would be a lot less trouble-prone, which is why I would think it might be a good thing for DirectAdmin to get into. I don't like it, but "I get it" that FreeBSD just doesn't make business sense for them anymore. We do know web hosters are using Plesk to be able to offer *NIX and Windows. cPanel doesn't do that but like owns hosters. DA needs a way to get it into people's hands and head-to-head with cPanel at hosters won't work because cPanel is the standard. However, if DA could do Windows, some hosters would implement it rather than Plesk and that would bring more mind share to DA for the *NIX world also. Of course DA knows infinitely more than me about the market but Windows would be easier to maintain than *NIX, and Windows has established volume in the web world.

JAT
 
IT_Architect said:
Windows is very stable. Two years ago we shut down the last Windows 2000 Server and it was still running fine.
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That just seems so dangerous.
Windows would be easier to maintain than *NIX, and Windows has established volume in the web world.
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I'd say the oposite tbh, Windows server isn't bad, but Linux *is* easier to maintain in my opinion
 
As for maintenance I agree with k1l0b1t. In the beginning, before I started hosting I had 2 Windows servers running at home. They kept running but if something went wrong, I find it a lot easier also to find help for linux issues.

IT_Architect said:
Nobody wants to buy a desktop or server license for the web, including me, and I like being able to spin up a new VM any time I want to
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Yes, but for every piece of Windows, you need a license, right? Also for VM's. And if you want to do mail i guess you're using Exchange? Which also costs a bunch of money.
I know some non-hosting company's running an old 2006 server, which does not support TLS 1.2 anymore, so then they have to buy new. So I don't know for sure if on the long term Windows is less expensive then free. But you have more experience on that, so I can't be sure as I never used it for webhosting and never used it again after 2001 or something.

It might indeed be a good idea for DA to support Windows. But I don't know how much work it is to create such support and if the market is big enough so they can get enough new or ex-Plesk customers. Also they need a Windows specialist then too for development.

But it might be good for DA to take this into consideration and investigate if it would be worth while for them. Because since Plesk is the only one providing this support, there might be a hole in the market there were DA could succesfully jump in.
 
Richard G said:
It might indeed be a good idea for DA to support Windows. But I don't know how much work it is to create such support and if the market is big enough so they can get enough new or ex-Plesk customers. Also they need a Windows specialist then too for development.
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It'd not be worth the effort, unless windows had a much bigger market share in webhost-world as it does now. (nonetheless, an interesting thing to see, as indeed plesk is the only panel I know of supporting windows)
 
k1l0b1t said:
indeed plesk is the only panel I know of supporting windows
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Yep, exactly that was which made me think it might be interesting for DA to have a look at it. There are still a lot of Windows hosters out there. Compared to Linux only a few but one never knows...
 
IT_Architect said:
It's easy to see the world based on the world we live in. However, if we stick our heads up, it might not be what we assume.
W3Techs Web Technology Surveys Of course those numbers do not translate into DA's DA's market it is only .8%, and of that market it is people who want to maximize the number of sites per server where FreeBSD fits very well EXCEPT most of those are huge web hosters who have their own control panels based off something like vDeck. A lot of Windows sites are single-domain company sites because business requires Windows Server to function and it comes with it and you can administer it easily, large companies where it is requirted for their applications, VPS where it also needed for applications for smaller companies, and less-so for shared hosting, but the shared hosting is not too small, at least Plesk doesn't think so. I guess DA would have to sort that out. JAT
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>Yes, but for every piece of Windows, you need a license, right? Also for VM's.<
Yes and no. A single license of server allows you to install two VMs. Earlier, you could run everything on the Domain controller, but that changed. It isn't so much load thing as people suppose, it is a security thing.

>And if you want to do mail i guess you're using Exchange? Which also costs a bunch of money.<
For Small Business: It depends on the size of the company. A larger company or those with required privacy like investment firms, accounting firms, etc. you want Exchange for in-house. Today, you can actually get 3rd party HIPPA compliant email hosting so it is getting less necessary for smaller businesses. For small businesses that have no specialized requirements, it's Office 365. For web hosting. Nearly all shared line of business software is Windows-only. It is far and away easier to manage security down to the desktop. As an Enterprise system, it is nowhere close to being as good as Novell's eDirectory but kids growing up don't know any better so the market is what it is.

For Web Servers: Just use Open Source for everything, e.g. WAMP. The only thing you need from MS is the OS.
 
Webmin+Virtualmin should be a good... and maybe only... option for FreeBSD from now on.
 
wattie said:
Webmin+Virtualmin should be a good... and maybe only... option for FreeBSD from now on.
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I played with Webmin+Virtualmin before and didn't get it working, but I didn't work with it enough to understand it because I didn't need to. It might be worth doing. It may seem obvious, but I had forgotten all about it. Thank you for that reminder.
 
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IT_Architect said:
I need to do another FreeBSD VM install.
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Sorry I am late. As noted I wouldn't use FreeBSD anymore for DA. Unsupported going forward. My current vote as much as I dislike saying it is for Debian 10. Unless you need Cloud linux then Alma is best.
IT_Architect said:
What DA needs is a Windows product.
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and Plesk
 
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