Big Problem: Dovecot default IMAP folders SHOULD be created automatically on user acc creation level Directadmin

[tarik]

Just answer some of your questions: Not to much of a big deal.

Standard Dovecot doesnt do this the user or someone must login.


I would stop focusing on cpanel. Directadmin, Interworx, Plesk... arent Cpanel.

Dont do this use the file in my guide.

You dont have to yell... We all have been there. We all have the things we dont like in DA or any other panel. It is not a bug Dovecot works this way in the Standard format. Is Cpanel doing something to get those folders on account creation maybe so.

mailbox "Sent Messages" {
    special_use = \Sent
    auto = no
  }

I dont have this one in my Guide if you need it just add it to the 90-special-folders.conf file.

Thanks dear factor I track the both tutorials, yours one, and other one from Zeiter,

https://forum.directadmin.com/threads/imap-folders.54713/

but now checking few times on outlook its working well!, seems all ok now

Maybe this thing with setting 0 to da settings for inbox.spam to junk + other things make the things good. I dont know... Seems all ok for now...

And yes will include this AUTODISCOVER because I see it cannot to autodiscover on thunderbird now at all, I have only imap port enabled all pop ports blocked, (because pop in past did many troubles to me because 99% clients using imap, and when they switched to pop after changing the devices, it did big mess, because many of clients have like 30 GB of email in storage synchronized in imap for last 5 years and imagine what kind of problems that caused abuse of server, deleting emails from inbox) etc etc, many problems, so pop is blocked on each of my client and using only imap, also doing backup regulary to backup servers for all things...

P.S. with directadmin @DirectAdmin Sales , @DirectAdmin Support , I like most the things like 99 % of them, I am not switching 20 servers from CP to DA without a reason .

THANKS to all !

 

[tarik]

@factor , @zEitEr , @Richard G , @DirectAdmin Support ,

OK guys, I knew that I didnt crazy (still) ,,

I tested today 20 times the situation with all without all etc...

-- Look scenario, my problem start appear few days ago when I tried to set it on few WINDOWS 11 NEWEST OUTLOOK mail client, on some clients pc-s, as I explained in all messages before.

-- After I have done all the tutorials from FACTOR AND ZEITER on the the threads already mentioned above few times and on beginning of this thread that RICHARD G wrote it, and than I tried several times on my customer/client pc again to set some test emails, but problem wasnt happened again, it was all normal.

-- But always I like to know why the problem was occured, so today I revert all changes from before tutorials that was made to the original BY DEFAULT DA settings, and again problem appeard, I tested on 13 different email accounts, everytime restart DA and dovecot rebuild conf etc..., and problem appear again only INBOX was shown after adding new mail account in NEWEST WINDOWS 11 OUTLOOK.

CHECK THE 1ST SCREENSHOT IT WAS SYNCHRONIZATION ERROR AFTER I TRIED TO SEND THE EMAIL , IT SEARCHED FOR SENT FOLDER EMAIL BECAUSE IT WAS CHECKED, EVEN IF IT WASN CHECKED THERE WAS SYNC ERROR, I TRIED WITH UPDATE FOLDERS EVERYTHING SUBSCRIBE AGAIN TO CLICK MANUALLY on subscribe BUT NOTHING IN OUTLOOK THIS WAS """" !!! FROZEN !!! """" AT ALL, only when I tested like go to thunderbrid from another pc or login via roundcube, than folder started to appear on that WINDOWS pc as well, but that was shocking!



--- So what I did next to see where is the exact error. I did step by step and FINAL conclusion was this:

A. Adding a 90-special-folders.conf in etc/dovecot/conf.d/ adding the things like that you will have some new folders structure and you can add some new folders or re-arrange their behaviour but again problem in OUTLOOK ON PC WITH WIN 11 WAS there no any folders was sync except INBOX and INBOX.spam IF YOU CLICK ON INBOX TO SYNC IT OR UPDATE FOLDERS OR GET ALL MESSAGES BUTTON --> it was able to sync only inbox and inbox.spam no any other PARENT folders in hierarchy was able to sync automatically.

B. After I RUN this function from FACTOR tutorial: " /usr/local/directadmin/directadmin set spam_inbox_prefix 0 ", everything was OK, than, all working well, I tested 5 times again on few different email acc, and folders hierarchy was automatically added in outlook immediately after account creation and ok. Normally now it was now without inbox.spam, it was JUNK instead, and all other folders appeard there (like Sent, Trash, Archive, Drafts).etc...

This under B. point, was the main reason that causes conflict there, and that have some bug that is not compatible with newest outlook on win 11, and maybe some other cilents like apple etc, i didnt tested there, and than win 11 outlook cannot recognize parents hierarchy because of that INBOX.SPAM problem that is by default set to ' spam_inbox_prefix 1 ', and somehow it freezes there on that position and cannot update or sync other folders in hierarchy, after we set that to 0 , everything works fine it immediately sync inbox, junk, sent ...all other folders... without any problems...

C. Of course I left that settings to be: spam_inbox_prefix 0, and of course I left the 90-special-folders.conf to be there as well becuase of folder strucutre and I added some extra folders.

CHECK THE SCREENSHOT 2 TO understand better HOW IT WAS LOOKED IN BOTH SITUATIONs:



Thanks to all!
I think this is not so big big mess maybe, but can be a headache if someone occurs on it, because it can make a conflict , so it will be the best if DIRECTADMIN change by default this in next update to be instead of inbox.spam to be normal .Junk.

BEST REGARDS!

 

[mxroute]

Of worthy addition to this thread, you can actually do a LOT of things that DA doesn't do itself, with hooks. Check these out: https://docs.directadmin.com/developer/hooks/email.html

So like imagine running a bash script on email account creation to create folders using variables from the event, chown them, etc. Really no limit to the cool things you could do.

 

[mxroute]

I think this is not so big big mess maybe, but can be a headache if someone occurs on it, because it can make a conflict , so it will be the best if DIRECTADMIN change by default this in next update to be instead of inbox.spam to be normal .Junk.

There's really no universally sane place to put it, honestly. The most sane thing to do would be create one folder and then symlink all the others to the same one, I think. Because different email clients use different Sent folders, different Spam folders, etc. So what seems sane today is really just based on what customer you're talking to today. Change it and tomorrow you're just talking to a different one that finds the new default not sane.

 

[ericosman]

Hey Tarik,

First of all i love to see that your problem has been solved!

I have followed the thread and i have to say it started like abracadabra for me, and now i have an understanding.

But what i do not understand is the following (and please don't get me wrong) :
You decided to go from Cpanel to DirectAdmin (and for that i would like to say welcome to the group)

Than you moved over some clients, and found out that it gives problems (and that's what i dont understand /it's possible that i read wrong/ but you did not test DA with a test profile to see it met your requirements?)

Than panic came in to play, clients are not happy and you start to get calls/txts etc.

Than you say "I suggest to @DirectAdmin Support , to implement this in DA so the default IMAP folders to be automatically created on user creation, believe me I know what I am talking about because I am doing with 200 + mail users of 20+ different companies, this is one of my main business...and exactly I am telling the stuffs from terrain..." And dont get me wrong, i do understand that you would love this, but because you NEED something doenst mean that i need it.

And i see that a lot in your posts, you are used to something and now you dont have it (directly) and that gives panic. So my tip to you would be "test before you make it live, and of course shit will hit the fan once it go's live but atleast you tested it "

Have a nice day, and please dont feel offended

 

[tarik]

Hey Tarik,

First of all i love to see that your problem has been solved!

I have followed the thread and i have to say it started like abracadabra for me, and now i have an understanding.

But what i do not understand is the following (and please don't get me wrong) :
You decided to go from Cpanel to DirectAdmin (and for that i would like to say welcome to the group)

Than you moved over some clients, and found out that it gives problems (and that's what i dont understand /it's possible that i read wrong/ but you did not test DA with a test profile to see it met your requirements?)

Than panic came in to play, clients are not happy and you start to get calls/txts etc.

Than you say "I suggest to @DirectAdmin Support , to implement this in DA so the default IMAP folders to be automatically created on user creation, believe me I know what I am talking about because I am doing with 200 + mail users of 20+ different companies, this is one of my main business...and exactly I am telling the stuffs from terrain..." And dont get me wrong, i do understand that you would love this, but because you NEED something doenst mean that i need it.

And i see that a lot in your posts, you are used to something and now you dont have it (directly) and that gives panic. So my tip to you would be "test before you make it live, and of course shit will hit the fan once it go's live but atleast you tested it "

Have a nice day, and please dont feel offended

Thanks dear for answer,

Yes I tested it before but first time did move on win 11 new outlook and have that problems last week, I tested all yesterday and explained all in detail and tested what caused the problem, it was specific really specific problem that only appeared on NEW WIN 11 WITH THE LATEST UPDATE AND NEWEST OUTLOOK win desktop app, other clients like thunderbird, bluemail, gmail, hotmail mobile apps didnt have this kind of problem, only desktop win 11 new outlook, for what reason I dont know but that INBOX.spam, caused a problem with synchronizing other parent folders in hierarchy for new outlook, after set it to spam_inbox_prefix 0 , .Junk, problem dissapeared.

Thank you dont worry all ok, DA great!

 

[Richard G]

in NEWEST WINDOWS 11 OUTLOOK.

Aha, that explains a lot. Mainly also because stupid MS is starting to use the same name of all different mail clients they have.
Now I know why we did not have any complaints, as most of our customers are using the real Outlook, which is Office Outlook. A lot of my clients are still on W10 and those on W11 are using Office Outlook or Office 365.
What you are talking about is in fact Windows Mail. Which Microsoft "in their wisdom" starts to name "Outlook" in Windows 11 to add to the confustion which Outlook somebody is using (Office, Windows Mail or Webmail Outlook). Poor decision of MS imho.

Since this is the only mail client causing this issue, this seems to me a bug in Windows Mail in W11 in that case.

However, I agree that things should be more like it's everywhere, so like inbox.spam should be the Junk folder and so on.

Thank you for your persistance and your ver clear way showing us how you fixed things in post #22. I'm sure we can use that in the future to help others with the same question.

 

[Active8]

Anyway, MS is phasing out Mail and Calendar app and migrate everything in August 2023 to Outlook

 

[Richard G]

Yep that's what I said, they are going to call everything Outlook now, including Windows Mail, they modernize it and call it Outlook too. They just make it more confusing.

 

[tarik]

Aha, that explains a lot. Mainly also because stupid MS is starting to use the same name of all different mail clients they have.
Now I know why we did not have any complaints, as most of our customers are using the real Outlook, which is Office Outlook. A lot of my clients are still on W10 and those on W11 are using Office Outlook or Office 365.
What you are talking about is in fact Windows Mail. Which Microsoft "in their wisdom" starts to name "Outlook" in Windows 11 to add to the confustion which Outlook somebody is using (Office, Windows Mail or Webmail Outlook). Poor decision of MS imho.

Since this is the only mail client causing this issue, this seems to me a bug in Windows Mail in W11 in that case.

However, I agree that things should be more like it's everywhere, so like inbox.spam should be the Junk folder and so on.

Thank you for your persistance and your ver clear way showing us how you fixed things in post #22. I'm sure we can use that in the future to help others with the same question.

Thanks very much dear Richard, yes this was really really specific thing, so not many peoples have this kind of problem, yes you are right, obvsiouly this is something with the newest win 11 and their way of implementing Outlook desktop app on win 11 etc... But as I explained everything and tested step by step this solving this conflict.

You cannot even when you click on UPDATE FOLDERS or to QUERY and SUBSCRIBE to folders from list nothing happened, no any folders synchornizing, you must manually create a folders like cretae new folder with name Sent on Outlook win 11, or go first to thunderbird or roundcube to login first time via that client do some communication and than revert back to Outlook on win 11 and folders will appear...

This is of course not happening on win 10, any other client I found so far just on this, this pc was brand new with newest update of win 11 and newest outlook dekstop app that causing this conflict, probably due to that reason that you explained what MS did in latest win 11 and outlook mail etc...

Maybe nobody will face this problem, but if anyone there is a concrete solution, and of course I agree it is always better to avoid problem in start, and to predict it, so I changed accross all my DA servers default folder to be JUNK in parents hierarchy of folders.

Thanks to all!
Best Regards!

P.S. YES persistance is the key of success! + Focus!

 

[tarik]

Anyway, MS is phasing out Mail and Calendar app and migrate everything in August 2023 to Outlook

Is that good or bad what they doing @Richard G , just curios...?...

I mostly using Ubuntu desktop on my PC-s at office and accross all cloud servers Linux, windows and mac only per one laptop at home.

 

[tarik]

Yep that's what I said, they are going to call everything Outlook now, including Windows Mail, they modernize it and call it Outlook too. They just make it more confusing.

aha I see now, yea this is really stupid decision, per my understanding. That will just cause confusing, with most peoples not just us developers, devops etc.... but mostly regular peoples that using windows at office/home... but what to do...

 

[Richard G]

Is that good or bad what they doing @Richard G , just curios...?...

It's bad. The reason is because there are all kinds of Outlook stuff like I explained. Users only see Outlook. I also help in a couple of computer related forums. There are only home users mostly.
So they come and say "my outlook doesn't work and does this or that". So now every time we are already asking "Is it outlook webmail or outlook from office?".
Fortunately they still say "windows mail app" or "windows mail" when they have an issue with that. But now, that will also become Outlook. So yes, every time we have to ask... "which outlook" and then they don't understand or we have to directly ask "Office Outlook, Windows Outlook or Webmail Outlook"?
See the problem? On the other hand I tried to see a benefit of everything being called "Outlook" but the only advantage I see is for MS itself, if everything is called "outlook" then everyone knows it's from MS.
But I don't see any other benefit and don't see any benefit for the real user of the applications. So imho that name change is a bad thing.
Makes life harder to help people.

hat will just cause confusing, with most peoples not just us developers, devops etc.... but mostly regular peoples that using windows at office/home... but what to do...

Exactly!