cant send email to hotmail user

J

jeff_tp

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Joined
Apr 9, 2006
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hi, i run a dedicated server but alot of things aint sure how it work with the directadmin.
I have 5 IP addresses.

The problem is I can send email to yahoo, gmail n etc but cant send to hotmail user at all. The message is not in a junk mail or inbox. I ask hotmail people for that. They told me to do some changes. I have no idea how to do the changes. It stated

" Separate out the mailing infrastructure by IP. Marketing e-mail, ¡°forward to a friend¡± e-mail and signup e-mails should be sent from different IP¡¯s. This will help to identify what types of messages are being flagged by Hotmail customers. "

I have no idea on how to separete out the mailing infrastruture by IP? and how to send using different IP address?

I will appreciate any help. Thanks in advance
 
Do you have an SPF txt-record in your DNS zone file? If not the hotmail servers may refuse to accept mail from your domain. (I say "may" because according to the microsoft docs the mail would still be accepted but end up in the spam mailbox, but in my case they were ignored completely. Adding a SPF record solved that problem.)

To check if you have an SPF record choose "DNS administration" from the admin controlpanel and click on your domain name. In there you should have an entry that looks similar to this:
Code: 
yourdomain.com.	TXT	"v=spf1 a mx ip4:123.123.123.123 ?all"
(where "yourdomain.com" should read the name of your domain and "123.123.123.123" should be the ip address of your server)


More info here: http://www.openspf.org
 
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That's very good advice about SPF records from Aspegic.

SPF records have been included in DA for some time, and the ability to edit them is in recent DA versions.

The easiest way to check if you've got an SPF record is to run this from your shell command line:
Code: 
dig example.com txt
where example.com should be replaced by your domain name.

Now to answer jeff_tp's post specifically, you can make custom changes to the exim.conf file so that email from specific domains, and even from specific return addresses, is sent out from different IP#s, but it's decidedly non-trivial, and well beyond the scope of the DirectAdmin forums.

It's also stupid of the folk at Microsoft to expect every server on the Internet to do this to make it easier for them to filter out your incoming email (which is exactly what they're trying to do). If you read their message carefully you'll see they're admitting they throw away email, which is forbidden by the relevant RFCs.

And that's a good reason for you and your clients to explain on your/their sites that Hotmail may filter out mail addressed to users, and that they (the users) shouldn't hotmail addresses when signing up for anything, anywhere, on the 'net.

Perhaps we should all set up our servers so mail addressed to hotmail is returned to the senders by our server with a notice to that effect.

Hotmail is definitely RFC-ignorant.

That all said, a correct spf record should resolve the issue for most of us.

Jeff
 
hi thanks for the prompt reply.

I think I do have the SPF as stated i go to dns management, then i found this.

sgvogue.com. TXT "v=spf1 a mx ip4:72.21.11.82 ?all"

This is already there when I check on the direct admin.

Does that separate out the ip to the mail?

mail A 72.21.11.83 <--- i change the ip address from 72.21.11.82 to 72.21.11.83 ? does that means i have separate out the ip? the problem is still there that the hotmail users could not receive any message at all.

Regard the exim.conf, i have no idea where is it located in the shell command? what command should i type? and how to go about editing it?

Any suggesstion is really appreciated. Thanks alot once again in advance.
 
jeff_tp said:
I think I do have the SPF as stated i go to dns management, then i found this.

sgvogue.com. TXT "v=spf1 a mx ip4:72.21.11.82 ?all"

This is already there when I check on the direct admin.
Click to expand...
That is the correct spf address if your server main IP address is 72.21.11.82.
Does that separate out the ip to the mail?
Click to expand...
No. What that does is tell Microsoft any other recipient that mail coming from the domain is supposed to come from that address.
mail A 72.21.11.83 <--- i change the ip address from 72.21.11.82 to 72.21.11.83 ? does that means i have separate out the ip?
Click to expand...
While harmless now, it's useless and could cause problems if you ever change IP#s on this server as neither you nor your system will have any record that you changed that IP#. I highly recommend changing it back.
the problem is still there that the hotmail users could not receive any message at all.
Click to expand...
Have you checked your exim log at /var/log/exim/mainlog to see what happens to email going to hotmail?
Regard the exim.conf, i have no idea where is it located in the shell command? what command should i type? and how to go about editing it?
Click to expand...
If you don't know where it is or how to find it, then I'd bet you don't know how to change it and I highly recommend leaving it alone since any changes to it will most likely not help and may complete break all email service. It took me weeks to write it; I don't recommend changing it except by experts who know exactly what they're doing.
Any suggesstion is really appreciated. Thanks alot once again in advance.
Click to expand...
Check the logs in realtime while attempting a mail delivery to hotmail, and paste the relative log entries (at /var/log/exim/mainlog) into a post here.

Only the relevant entries. If you post too much most of us won't bother to try to figure it out.

Jeff
 
Hi
I run a fedora core os. at shell command, i did cd /var/log/exim
after that i type vi mainlog to get the below file.

This is the mainlog file.
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsd-0006tk-FH <= [email protected] U=root P=local S=704 T="Cron <root@vogueb2b> run-parts /etc/cron.daily" from <[email protected]> for root
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsd-0006tk-FH ** [email protected] F=<[email protected]> R=virtual_aliases:
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsi-0006uX-An <= <> R=1FSUsd-0006tk-FH U=mail P=local S=1471 T="Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender" from <> for [email protected]
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsi-0006uX-An ** [email protected] F=<> R=virtual_aliases:
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsi-0006uX-An Frozen (delivery error message)
2006-04-09 04:02:48 1FSUsd-0006tk-FH Completed
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRlv6-0003Wv-3a Unfrozen by errmsg timer
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRlv6-0003Wv-3a ** [email protected] F=<> R=virtual_aliases:
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRlv6-0003Wv-3a [email protected]: error ignored
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRlv6-0003Wv-3a Completed
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRluy-0002vc-8u Unfrozen by errmsg timer
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRluy-0002vc-8u ** [email protected] F=<> R=virtual_aliases:
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRluy-0002vc-8u [email protected]: error ignored
2006-04-09 04:06:38 1FRluy-0002vc-8u Completed
2006-04-09 05:18:01 H=71-33-31-116.bois.qwest.net (saasa.com) [71.33.31.116] F=<[email protected]> rejected RCPT <[email protected]>:
2006-04-09 05:18:01 H=71-33-31-116.bois.qwest.net (saasa.com) [71.33.31.116] incomplete transaction (connection lost) from <[email protected]>
2006-04-09 05:18:01 unexpected disconnection while reading SMTP command from 71-33-31-116.bois.qwest.net (saasa.com) [71.33.31.116]
2006-04-09 06:34:09 H=atoulouse-151-1-104-42.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr (apci.net) [86.217.230.42] F=<[email protected]> rejected RCPT <[email protected]>:
2006-04-09 06:34:09 H=atoulouse-151-1-104-42.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr (apci.net) [86.217.230.42] incomplete transaction (connection lost) from <[email protected]>
2006-04-09 06:34:09 unexpected disconnection while reading SMTP command from atoulouse-151-1-104-42.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr (apci.net) [86.217.230.42]
2006-04-09 06:58:45 H=71-32-225-222.slkc.qwest.net (titan.com) [71.32.225.222] F=<[email protected]> rejected RCPT <[email protected]>:
2006-04-09 06:58:46 H=71-32-225-222.slkc.qwest.net (titan.com) [71.32.225.222] incomplete transaction (connection lost) from <[email protected]>
2006-04-09 06:58:46 unexpected disconnection while reading SMTP command from 71-32-225-222.slkc.qwest.net (titan.com) [71.32.225.222]
2006-04-09 07:23:28 1FSY0u-0007aB-GY <= [email protected] U=apache P=local S=2364 T="Invitation to the Singapore Largest Community" from <[email protected]> for [email protected]
2006-04-09 07:26:00 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 <= [email protected] U=apache P=local S=551 T="This is test mail subject" from <[email protected]> for [email protected]
2006-04-09 07:26:03 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 => [email protected] F=<[email protected]> R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp S=573 H=mx12.singnet.com.sg [165.21.74.122] C="250 2.0.0 k3A5Q6dk018635 Message accepted for delivery"
2006-04-09 07:26:03 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 Completed
2006-04-09 07:26:37 1FSY0u-0007aB-GY mx4.hotmail.com [65.54.190.179] Connection timed out


thanks
 
Hi,
Mr. Jeff may i know did i post the right mainlog? or i did a wrong main log? I have not hear from you regarding this? just like to make sure is this the one you looking at?
 
Have you seen this report from dnsreport.com? :
No NS A records at nameservers

It could be that you have problems with your DNS server configuration.
That may be the cause of the problems you're having with hotmail.



PS. Both sgvogue.com and vogueb2b.com have the same IP address (72.21.11.82). A reverse lookup of that IP address returns vogueb2b.com which is the domain that reports the errors at dnsreport.com. (Dnsreport does not seem to report errors for sgvogue.com, except for the "Open DNS servers" message which is more of a warning really than an error, more info on that here: How To create a non-recursive nameserver).
But if hotmail checks the IP address it would find vogueb2b instead of sgvogue and since vogueb2b seems to have issues that could potentially cause problems.
 
Last edited:
jeff_tp said:
Mr. Jeff may i know did i post the right mainlog? or i did a wrong main log? I have not hear from you regarding this? just like to make sure is this the one you looking at?
Click to expand...
You posted more than you had to. Here are the bottom five lines:
2006-04-09 07:23:28 1FSY0u-0007aB-GY <= [email protected] U=apache P=local S=2364 T="Invitation to the Singapore Largest Community" from <[email protected]> for [email protected]
2006-04-09 07:26:00 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 <= [email protected] U=apache P=local S=551 T="This is test mail subject" from <[email protected]> for [email protected]
2006-04-09 07:26:03 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 => [email protected] F=<[email protected]> R=lookuphost T=remote_smtp S=573 H=mx12.singnet.com.sg [165.21.74.122] C="250 2.0.0 k3A5Q6dk018635 Message accepted for delivery"
2006-04-09 07:26:03 1FSY3M-0007ae-D5 Completed
2006-04-09 07:26:37 1FSY0u-0007aB-GY mx4.hotmail.com [65.54.190.179] Connection timed out
Click to expand...
Of these only the top and the bottom mention hotmail.

The top one shows you're trying to send an email to hotmail. The ID assigned to this email is 1FSY0u-0007aB-GY
The next line to quite this email is the last; it says that hotmail never answered your server; your connection to them timed out before it was answered.

There could be lots of reasons for this. Hotmail may just be busy, in which case your server should try again for up to several days.

As far as the error Aspegic mentions; it doesn't matter what your reverse DNS points to as long as it provides a good response.

However vogueb2b.com doesn't seem to be good, as Aspegic mentions. If you have control over that domain, fix it. If you don't, then have your reverse DNS provider fix your reverse DNS to point to your domain, or to a domain that does have good records. This could be a reason hotmail would refuse to respond to you.

Thanks, Aspegic.

Jeff
 
However vogueb2b.com doesn't seem to be good, as Aspegic mentions. If you have control over that domain, fix it. If you don't, then have your reverse DNS provider fix your reverse DNS to point to your domain, or to a domain that does have good records. This could be a reason hotmail would refuse to respond to you.

hi regarding this issue, hwo to fix it? ya i own this domain also. Im sorry as I am new at this things.
 
The problem with Hotmail and any Micro$oft emails, is that they will end up in the Junk, unless you pay some "third-party" called Bonded Sender and they aren't cheap. I argued with them to whitelist me, but would only refer me to Bonded Sender.

The only emails that didn't end up in their Junk folder, were emails from the primary domainname, assuming you have the correct SPF records and reverse DNS setup.
 
toml,

I have no problem delivering email to Hotmail.

That said, I still stand by my recommendations.

I'd never pay to be in a bonded sender program unless i was sending junk mail, as that's what it's designed for.

And I'd never send junk email, because that's not what the Internet is designed for.

jeff_tp,

If you need my answer then post your entire zone file for the broken domain here.

Jeff
 
If you need my answer then post your entire zone file for the broken domain here.

Jeff


hi regarding this, can you simplified a little? W'here can i get my entire zone file for the broken domain? thanks
 
I don't have the problem delivering to Hotmail, but my customers sometimes do. The problem is that the domain portion of the sending address don't match the reverse DNS name for the SMTP server. That is when they seem to flag the mail as Junk.

For example [email protected] is an email address for virtual domain on server svr1.realdomain.com. They do their SPF and reverse DNS lookups and the are fine, but the vdomain.com does not match realdomain.com from the reverse DNS so it goes to Junk.
 
ic, so for my situation, what can be done? Have been very vexing with my problems and lots of headache. I really appreciate any help. Please provide me in detail on what are they changes. Spending weeks unsolve this problem. Thanks
 
toml,

If hotmail is really marking as junk any email that comes from a server where the reverse DNS doesn't match the domain name in the return address they're violating RFCs. Of course there's nothing you can do about it if they are except tell your clients to use their ISPs server and their ISPs return address, since you can only have one reverse DNS entry for each IP# (that is if you want reverse DNS to work at all).

What they should be checking for is to make sure that there is reverse DNS and that it points to the server host.

In other words, they should do a reverse DNS on the IP, and then a forward DNS on the answer to the reverse DNS.

So the first step is to make sure you have that.

jeff_tp,

The zone file can be found in the /var/named directory.

Jeff
 
sgvogue.com. 14400 IN TXT "v=spf1 a mx ip4:72.21.11.82 ?all"
N SOA ns1.sgvogue.com. root.sgvogue.com. (
2006041214
7200
3600
1209600
86400 )

sgvogue.com. 14400 IN NS ns1.sgvogue.com.
sgvogue.com. 14400 IN NS ns2.sgvogue.com.

ftp 14400 IN A 72.21.11.82
localhost 14400 IN A 127.0.0.1
mail 14400 IN A 72.21.11.84
pop 14400 IN A 72.21.11.84
sgvogue.com. 14400 IN A 72.21.11.84
www 14400 IN A 72.21.11.84
"sgvogue.com.db" 30L, 721C

hi i hope this is the zone file.
 
It looks like a zone file, but mangled.

Is this the complete zone file, exactly as it is in your system?

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
toml,

If hotmail is really marking as junk any email that comes from a server where the reverse DNS doesn't match the domain name in the return address they're violating RFCs. Of course there's nothing you can do about it if they are except tell your clients to use their ISPs server and their ISPs return address, since you can only have one reverse DNS entry for each IP# (that is if you want reverse DNS to work at all).

What they should be checking for is to make sure that there is reverse DNS and that it points to the server host.

In other words, they should do a reverse DNS on the IP, and then a forward DNS on the answer to the reverse DNS.

So the first step is to make sure you have that.

Jeff
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100% and I argued with them about that, and their only answer was to subscribe to Bonded Sender. So I do recommend that if you want a free email address, use Yahoo or Gmail, they will at least work with you.
 
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