Converting from CentOS?

If you will be looking to move to a different OS which one?

  • FreeBSD

  • Debian

  • Ubuntu

  • Oracle Linux (not currently Supported)

  • Cloud Linux OSV (not currently existing)

  • Red Hat EL

  • Rocky Linux (not currently existing)

  • Staying on CentOS until the bitter end.

  • Windows?

  • Alma linux


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sparek

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I guess I'm a little surprised that Debian or Ubuntu didn't rush in to try and fill this gap. Or at how quickly everyone flocked to Alma Linux.

I know Ubuntu is viewed as more of a desktop distribution (it's what I use on my desktop) and I know they have a server version, but perhaps they should have repackaged that as a different name to try and get beyond the "desktop only" label that Ubuntu has.

Ubuntu using more up-to-date packages and not relying on backported fixes like CentOS/RHEL would seem to be a benefit for Ubuntu.

Ubuntu allowing for in place OS upgrades from major version to major version would also seem to be a benefit. (Although, I don't know how well this would work in a multi-user server environment. I've done it in the desktop environment though).

Debian might also fit in with all of this. Ubuntu was born out of Debian, but at some point they branched away from each other. When Ubuntu first came out it was kind of viewed as the easier to use, less scary for new users alternative to Debian. It's been a while since I've used Debian, probably 90s or early 2000s, so I'm not sure what all has happened in it's development. I'm still much more of a command-line person even with Ubuntu.

A totally new server OS that's based on Debian/Ubuntu might've been warranted as well. I just think there's some benefits that Ubuntu (and Debian?) have over CentOS/RHEL that might've warranted adoption in the post-CentOS world.

And to be honest, I'm still not sure if the landscape has truly settled on an alternative. Although it would seem that Alma Linux has taken an early lead.

I can still remember when the old RedHat (not RHEL, it was just called RedHat) became RHEL and went to a paying model. This caused quite a commotion in the hosting industry as companies looked for free OS alternatives. FreeBSD was touted as a viable alternative for a bit. Fedora was used by some. Then CentOS came out and being a basic clone of RHEL it became the industry standard. My fear, going into 2022, is deploying new servers with a new OS and then for that OS to turn out to be the loser in all of this. I'm more of a fan of a single OS driving this industry. If you put all of your eggs in the basket of the OS that doesn't win, then when you encounter problems with that OS you're going to find it very difficult to get assistance.
 

Richard G

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Ubuntu allowing for in place OS upgrades from major version to major version
Which is logical because Ubuntu is a Debian based distro.
It might have to do with some difference between apt-get and yum. The latter one is (imho) much easier to configure, especially excluding certain packages.

I think Debian (alike) and Redhat (alike) systems can compeat with each other and probably the main thing of choice is what people are used to work with.
Hosting likes to work with very stable stuff, so that was the reason Centos got ahead. Easy to manage, lots of people were used to the old Redhat and you could use all the same commands.

My fear, going into 2022, is deploying new servers with a new OS and then for that OS to turn out to be the loser in all of this.
I don't think you have to fear about that. As you can see Alma Linux is taking a lead. And mostly because it's supported by Cloudlinux which is widely used by both DA and cPanel hosters, and next to that it's a very good OS and extremely compatible with Centos.
So I don't think that will dissapear any time soon again.
Next to that, if you still worry, you can always choose to install with Debian which is also present and supported for many years. And I don't see that one going to dissapear any time soon either.
So concluding... no need for any fear on these cases.
It's just not possible for a single OS to drive this industry. Even remember that there is also still Windows hosting, which is also a totally other OS.

Oke for Rocky Linux we'll have to wait and see what happens. This claims to be 100% bug-for-bug compatible with Centos. I don't expect to see that one gone within the upcoming 5 years.
 

sparek

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It's not so much the OS dying and not really so much the control panel not supporting the OS.

It's just that if nobody is using that OS and you run into problems, the pool of other OS users is not going to be there to help you.

I'm sort of, kind of against the multiple OS brigade. The more OSes that a control panel supports the more thinly you stretch development for that control panel. Because you can't add Feature A without insuring and testing that it works on OS A, OS B, OS C...

Consider FreeBSD and DirectAdmin - which they've announced that they are no longer going to support. The reason for dropping support is because there just really wasn't that many people using FreeBSD with DirectAdmin. Having to continue to support an OS that nobody's using takes away time that could be spent ironing out functions with OSes (or "a" OS) to work properly. If someone had decided to move their whole fleet of servers from CentOS to FreeBSD after the CentOS 8 announcement, all of those folks would be in quite a pickle right now. They chose their OS successor poorly. And as far as I know, FreeBSD the OS isn't going anywhere, just not going to be supported by DirectAdmin. Ubuntu/Debian are probably more widely used by administrators with DirectAdmin than FreeBSD was, but what if DirectAdmin decides it's not worthwhile to continue support Ubuntu/Debian, then those people are going to be left in the dark.

Another example - I'm kind of a proponent of using Remi's PHP repository for PHP updates with DirectAdmin. Remi's repository is a yum repository, so requires a CentOS/RHEL OS. Officially DirectAdmin doesn't support it. But what if CentOS/RHEL were the only OSes supported by DirectAdmin? Then integration with Remi would at least have an avenue for being more officially supported. You wouldn't have to recompile PHP every time a new PHP is released.

If management of the OS is controlled by the control panel (DirectAdmin is a little bit better at keeping these independent as compared to that other control panel) then does the OS really matter? If upgrading the web server, PHP, MTA, database server, etc. is all controlled by the control panel - does the server administrator really care if it's a yum or apt-get or ./configure && make (other than compiling everything taking more time)?

It just seems that the CentOS 8 announcement was an opportunity for some of these other OSes to step up and push the envelope. But it seems that Alma Linux (and Rocky Linux for that matter) are just keeping the status quo. And if that's where the industry wants to go, I'll go with it. I just still wonder in the back of my mind if that's really the end of it. We will probably have to add some new servers in 2022, if not before, and using the wrong OS could wind up costing us more. I guess I'm just scrutinizing all of this a bit more than most.

I think the other reason I scrutinize this - I remember when RedHat became RHEL and it took a while for CentOS to come out from the ashes. Now that CentOS has died, it just seems like Alma Linux came about too quickly. It feels like this process should take a few years to fully iron out.
 
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Active8

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Well explained, but with upcoming Centos Steam version we as hoster must make some decisions to continue our work.
Wich OS you use depends on the one you are used too, most of our server fleet is Centos but we have some backup servers which's running Ubuntu flavors. Time will tell if we made right choice now :)
 

Richard G

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It's just that if nobody is using that OS and you run into problems, the pool of other OS users is not going to be there to help you.
I don't think that would happen so quickly because it's 100% Centos compatible, so there must happen real strange things to have something with can not be solved quickly by the pool of users. It's not unthinkable tho.
But also keep in mind that since this is new and hot, lots of linux hobbyist users and devs are already installing and testing this, out of curiosity and other reasons.
There will be better support since Cloudlinux is supporting it too, which makes it again interesting for devs and hosters.

It's not said that odd things can't happen, but for whats left I agree with Active8. We have to make a choice now, and those who don't want to switch over to Debian (or alike) have to make a decision and see how it works out.
Time will tell indeed, but I don't think we need to worry too much. Sometimes running a business is also taking some risks. ;)
 

Richard G

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Out of curiosity, when one converts to AlmaLinux, what choice does one have to make for the license OS in the customer panel?
Just keep it at Centos 8 64-bit or does one have to set it to Linux 64-bit static?
@Active8?
 

Richard G

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Thanks, I presume I don't need to do a "build all d" either. Going to try this evening with one server. We only got one with Centos 8 with hosting on it, already made backups. Exciting. :)
 

ikkeben

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Thanks, I presume I don't need to do a "build all d" either. Going to try this evening with one server. We only got one with Centos 8 with hosting on it, already made backups. Exciting. :)
OK good luck
Do a total (YUM/DNF) update after migration before reboot if possible and check if da is running with everything, so if after reboot something isn't you know it worked just after migration.. ( i think that is best to see if parts are newer then only do migration and hope the update script is doing all)
 

Erulezz

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Thanks, I presume I don't need to do a "build all d" either. Going to try this evening with one server. We only got one with Centos 8 with hosting on it, already made backups. Exciting. :)
For my own peace of mind i did a ./build all just to confirm everything works without any issues. The whole OS is replaced and some packages are upgraded/downgraded. Running ./build all doesn’t hurt anything, well maybe a somewhat slower OS for ~30 minutes 🤪

I also ran the set_permissions.sh script after this.
 

Richard G

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To give people courage, I also just converted a live production system with a raid 1 setup from Centos 8.4 to Alma Linux 8.4 (Electric Cheetah). It had no customizations or cache active.
Complete conversion done in not even 20 minutes. This was on a i7-4770 CPU with 32GB memory.
Thanks for all who gave me instructions and courage to try too. :)
 
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Richard G

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You got lucky I have not put out the pc yet. If you want I can test, if it's a testing server. If things go wrong, I can't put backups back for you. If you send me a pm I can give it a try for you. It was rather fun. :)
 

johannes

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You got lucky I have not put out the pc yet. If you want I can test, if it's a testing server. If things go wrong, I can't put backups back for you. If you send me a pm I can give it a try for you. It was rather fun. :)
yess, thank you! (ps i accidentically deleted my post)
 

ben29

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Jul 20, 2006
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I start to test.

I'm testing to Distro

1. Clear linux - it's look amazing, good performance, and light. still digging,

2. Debian - it's very stable, and works perfect with DA.


For now, using Centos 8 stream, and will be work find with DA,
 
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