This is illegal. You received thousands of dollars for a lifetime license, and now you regret it and are trying to force users to switch back to a monthly subscription in various ways.
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I'm confused about what the new license system means for me
- Thread starter Magistar
- Start date
This is illegal. You received thousands of dollars for a lifetime license, and now you regret it and are trying to force users to switch back to a monthly subscription in various ways.
Nope not illegal, the lifetime is always for a products life, you can keep using it, but it shall not get any updates.
e.g. if you bought Office 2003, you can still use it, just no updates....
It's not like Microsoft says "Oh you bought it in 2003, here is Office365 'free of use' for you"
Please don't give me irrelevant examples, Office 2003 has nothing to do with DirectAdmin.
In your example, we actually purchased Office itself, not just the 2003 version.
When we bought the license it was supposed to be lifetime with support.
In your example, we actually purchased Office itself, not just the 2003 version.
When we bought the license it was supposed to be lifetime with support.
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Save your nerves. You`re running against a wall. There were already endless discussions about this here in the forum. Just my 2 cents. It wont change.
I fully understand you. I was pissed too, as i just bought 2 lifetime licenses shortly before they changed all. You can easely find the threads (and answers..) here in the forum. Take a ride and read them .. but think at your nerves..
Richard G
Verified User
Compare with Windows XP then or other software out there. The lifetime licenses are declared legacy. As you know in software world, it's quite comon to declare lifetime software end of life too (there are examples out there). So be glad it's just legacy, they can still be used and -even- are still updated, which would not be the case when declared EOL.
You can keep using the licenses, only updates are gone and as @johannes already said, there are several threads about and at least 2 with long discussions about it, check and read those, it's no use starting a new one.
And new restrictions? Yes, we don't get new MariaDB and no new Mysql and no new OS support. But we still get updates on the current system, still better than an EOL declaration. And it's legal what they are doing.
If you think not, you have to take it up yourself otherwise, but that would only cost you loads of money, and you loose anyway.
I understand your frustration, but read the other threads first, all is said and done already before.
I understand directadmin needs to make money. But I think they should have honored the original lifetime deal, at the very least the retail ones, and just changed their pricing for all new licenses. There is plenty of money to be made on new licenses so they really didn't need to scrape up every penny on the old licenses.
And I know you would say they did honor it by EOLing the "legacy codebase" but I don't really think they honored the heart of the original deal even if they could use legalese to get out of it officially. I feel especially bad for people that paid the full retail price right before they decided to kill it off.
As for me, i've switched to another control panel that I actually like better now. I still have one personal plus license for one small vps that I have a technical need to use it. But they pretty much lost me as a customer for all of my future servers, not that they probably care I guess.
They could have really lost a lot more money by bailing on lifetime customers, by losing a lot of future business. I have several servers now all running on another control panel. All of which I am happily paying for, that directadmin lost out on. I guess i'm saying I think they made a "pound foolish" decision that they probably don't realize cost them a ton of profits.
I realize at some point they regretted offering the lifetime deals (even though they made tons of profit on those originally). But they should have sucked it up and honored it anyways - since that was their original decision to offer it.
I once ordered from Apple and they sent the wrong product. When I called them, expecting to have to send it back and they could have saved some pennies by making me do so - but instead they told me to keep it and shipped me out the right product. They took ownership of their mistakes and kept a loyal customer. Directadmin on the other hand was downright rude to me when they decided to "transition" their license model.. not taking ownership of their own choices and not caring about retaining a customer.
And I know you would say they did honor it by EOLing the "legacy codebase" but I don't really think they honored the heart of the original deal even if they could use legalese to get out of it officially. I feel especially bad for people that paid the full retail price right before they decided to kill it off.
As for me, i've switched to another control panel that I actually like better now. I still have one personal plus license for one small vps that I have a technical need to use it. But they pretty much lost me as a customer for all of my future servers, not that they probably care I guess.
They could have really lost a lot more money by bailing on lifetime customers, by losing a lot of future business. I have several servers now all running on another control panel. All of which I am happily paying for, that directadmin lost out on. I guess i'm saying I think they made a "pound foolish" decision that they probably don't realize cost them a ton of profits.
I realize at some point they regretted offering the lifetime deals (even though they made tons of profit on those originally). But they should have sucked it up and honored it anyways - since that was their original decision to offer it.
I once ordered from Apple and they sent the wrong product. When I called them, expecting to have to send it back and they could have saved some pennies by making me do so - but instead they told me to keep it and shipped me out the right product. They took ownership of their mistakes and kept a loyal customer. Directadmin on the other hand was downright rude to me when they decided to "transition" their license model.. not taking ownership of their own choices and not caring about retaining a customer.
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Richard G
Verified User
That's what you say, but as long as there are such many retail and internal licenses are out there which people get for free with their VPS or for 5/month they won't go paying for a 30/month license. So you can't determine if what you say is the case. I think my argument is more valid, because that's how I think about paying things.
LoL no. They did made a pound foolish decision as a company by selling the lifetime licenses so cheap and so long. Try find another company with the same method still alive. DA is not the only one which just stopped updating on licenses this way.
And no it does not cost them ton of profits as otherwise lifetime customers would be keep using lifetime licenses, not needed to buy new. Next to that they are still a lot cheaper than the competition, so they won't loose that much on future customers. I expect them rather to gain profit now lifetime licenses don't run on newest OS anymore.
So which panel then? I read people stating things like this, but not stating which panel. Probably a free panel which is not as good as DA anyway. Which is why I'm curious to which panel you are using now.
For sure not an ipad or iphone. Next to that Apple is a million dollar company like Microsoft, you can't compare company's like that with a small company like DA. Whales and small fish. And like Microsoft also Apple stops updating their software.
DA does not, it still updates their licenses, also the legacy ones, only difference is no newer stuff on the legacy licenses.
It's not realistic to expect a company to keep going on and loose money and maybe go broke by keep working for free. Software lifetime ends some time so again... show me a company which did the same, lifetime licenses and no price raising for so many years.
Good luck with that.
It's bitter for all of us, but check what happeend on other company's. There wasn't a great flow of customers to DA from CP for the fun of it. And guess which licenses they took at the time?
That's just it though. I DID buy new licenses since I have more servers than originally. If Directadmin had truly honored the lifetime deal I would still have that original install- sure, but I would have had many more DA licenses now but instead another company has my business. I can't be the only one that has made similar decisions. I used to be a DA evangelist. So if they had honored the original deal they would have made a lot more money from me in the end since I wouldn't have switched and my needs expanded. I have 6 dedicated servers that I am paying ISPManager for the unlimited accounts which is closer to $25 a month each, but I have a lot of small VPS accounts that I use the $5/deal. And my needs are only going to go up from where I am now.
ISPmanager. I didn't mention it since it didn't seem appropriate to plug another software company on directadmins forum. But, you asked
.It's more capable than directadmin - for example you can literally run any number of database servers in addition to the "native" mariadb server as docker servers with the click of a button. I have some sites running on mysql 8 for example. People have claimed it is buggier but that hasn't been my experience. And their licenses make more sense to my frankly, like they have a lite license for up to 10 domains for around 5ish a month. But unlike the directadmin $5/month license they don't require you to stick all of your domains under the admin account but you can create as many accounts as you want. Better for security and better for backups and just overall better usability. It's very easy to move sites between ISPmanager panels too, another thing I love about it.
Yeah you kind of missed the point. Apple valued a customer relationship over pure profit and they also took responsibility of their own mistakes. Directadmin did the opposite. It doesn't matter how big or small a company is, if you want to succeed you have to care about the customer experience. You don't treat your customers like garbage. I have a small business too and I have taken losses to make sure customers are satisfied many times. I have one customer that has bought from me for over 20 years and you bet if he has a problem i'm taking care of him.
Like I said, if they hadn't made the choice they did, with the attitude they had, I would have never have considered any alternative and I would have given them much more money.
They would not have gone broke because I would have kept buying new licenses.
I guess at the end of the day it was Directadmins choice but I suspect it hurt them. I just ordered a new VPS tonight for a backup server and guess what panel it will have?
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Richard G
Verified User
I didn't miss the point, I pointed out that you can't make such comparison between a very small company and a giant which can (because he's so big) do an enormous way more than a small company.
To me it seems you don't really understand what lifetime is in softwareland.
But thank you for the rest of your response and what you're using currently. I hope it will be good for you, but in the time I visited webhoster forums (also Dutch) I've never seen any company eventually being happy about the free panels which ispmanager was at that time.
Now it's paid software and it's a bit cheaper than DA with €21.07 a month for unlimited domains and the limited version but more expensive compared to personal plus.
Everyone it's own choice, but we rather stick to DA.
DA not so expensive too, especially with 4-th passage under prices:
Automatic retail license 15% discount after four (4) Standard Licenses (or equivalent value of any combination of recurring licenses).
Discount reaches 40% at thirty five (35)
When you selling VPSs 35 licenses easy reachable quantity.
floyd
Verified User
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2005
- Messages
- 6,273
40% off of $29 = $11.60
The VPS is $7.00. Nobody is going to pay $11.60 on a $7.00 VPS.
I was buying lifetime licenses which would pay for themselves in a about a year and then the cost was $0.00. I cannot do that anymore so I cannot buy anymore DA licenses at all. DA lost my money.
The VPS is $7.00. Nobody is going to pay $11.60 on a $7.00 VPS.
I was buying lifetime licenses which would pay for themselves in a about a year and then the cost was $0.00. I cannot do that anymore so I cannot buy anymore DA licenses at all. DA lost my money.
Richard G
Verified User
Well then you loose your money at some other place or DA wouldn't have earned any money from you anyway if you choose a free panel.
Keeping up lifetime licenes is not sustainable for a business, there is a reason why they all stopped with them.
floyd
Verified User
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2005
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- 6,273
Perhaps I should have phrased it differently. I didn't lose any money. DA lost money because I am no longer buying form them like I used to. I am just not offering free DA, or any other CP, with my VPSs anymore. And I found I am still selling even without DA so perhaps this was a blessing after all. Now I don't have to waste money on DA which really wasn't that important to me after all. DA lost a lot more than I did.
Well like I mentioned I haven't had a lot of bugs, and when I have I just open a ticket and they fix it quickly. Like they respond within 15-20 minutes. I don't think the fact they are Russian makes them untrustworthy unless you can provide concrete evidence. None of my sites have been hacked and i've been using them for years.
I don't really buy the EOL, applying it to directadmin. It's not like Windows in which they have to design a whole new OS. Directadmin didn't have new cost to develop the panel since they are already developing it progressively with each version. Allowing a lifetime customer license to "continue", which they previously sold happily since they made millions from it - was the same product as they now offer monthly. Yes they could have eaten the one time cost of that lifetime license while selling new licenses monthly to the same customer. They didn't do so out of pure greed, even if it made customers upset. Saying they won't include mariadb specifically for "old" licenses was actually complete BS. They crippled the old customers license when they didn't have to, just because they wanted more money, not for any real technical reason.
But worse to me is their attitude shown on this very forum, that somehow lifetime customers "stole" from them. When they happily sold it when it worked for them, and they made millions from it. No.. nobody stole from you Directadmin. You just reneged on what you happily offered once and profited from and then you backed out once you decided you wanted "more". That somehow lifetime customers should be grateful that they got 5 years out of it or 10 years out of it, when they advertised lifetime. No, I should be grateful if you actually delivered what you advertised sir. Especially retail customers, that paid $500 a pop for it.
And like I said, I am a small company too and wouldn't have chosen the same choice with my own customers. So you did miss the point.
At one point I offered 3 years warranty on a product I sold.
It did end up costing me money but I still honored it. That is the choice a mature company does, when they value customers and they own up to their own mistakes. I could have found some technical reason I didn't actually have to cover the warranty, like an insurance company, but that lacks integrity that is key to having a good company that actually cares about their customers and values them.. big or little..
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Richard G
Verified User
So you say development is free? They also (especially with the flow of cPanel switchers) needed new employee's to get done what they all where demanding to have. So where does that money has to come from?
There is a load more development done and new things in the last 5 years than on the 10 years before that if I'm not mistaken.
So even if they made millions, try and be such company and keep things alive and updated for 23 years now, without -any- price raising in all 23 years. I don't know of any company able to do that and keep their customers happy.
Now that is really BS. You're just here for a couple of years on the forums at least. I think you don't know them that long DA has never ever been out to get us. Otherwise there would already have been price raises just like any other company did, even it if was economic raises. They always have been fair to everyone, with everything. So what you say here is real nonsense.
As said... try it yourself and see how long your company will exist, good luck with that. Now try and look at it a bit more realistic.
I have read every post and thread and I've never seen anything which gave that impression, except from customers claiming DA stole from them, never the other way around.
So if you make such blunt statements, then show me a proof of such.
So I see you never bought a retail license.
I had a vbulletin lifetime license and then suddenly it was a 3.8 lifetime and then as of 3.8.7 was declared end of life, even while later came a 3.8.8 and 3.8.9 update afterwards, one would require a 4.x license.
If you want to compare, then compare with cPanel which lifetime licenses costed way over $ 1000 and if they even still are active, you pay more on support per year than the price of a DA lifetime license was.
Check with WHMCS, same thing, is still developped, but not for the lifetime licences anymore, end of support. So it is all quite common. Lifetime in software is not a persons lifetime or company lifetime.
I didn't miss any point, but I look at it another way.
Appels and pears. Warranty is something totally different than licensing. And I see you also have a limit on it. Which is logical. Your company has to keep living too. And even then you don't loose that much on 3 years warranty than on 23 years free support and updates.
If DA did not stop this at a certain point (and such point is never good, not 10 years ago and not over 10 years), people would keep getting VPS systems and servers with free or 5/month DA licenses which DA does not earn a penny on.
So who is going to pay for the deveoppers then?