jjma
Verified User
Sorry to keep on this point but does DA include the bandwidth used when sending out a mailing list in it's bandwidth quota?
Thanks
Jjma
Thanks
Jjma
Mailing Lists
- Thread starter Telfie
- Start date
Oh, do tell! Frankly, it is kind of cool to be able to send webpage-like email. I have no idea how it's done, and I certainly don't have free time to do much of it -- can't even keep up with my personal sites. But it's cool nonetheless and it would be handy for promoting my web design business (creating the illusion that I know what I'm doing;-). So reveal your secrets!
OE for web-based e-mail
I normally design my newsletters in Dreamweaver, then copy-and-paste the source code into Outlook. Here's my process:
1) Make sure all of your image source references point to Insert remote web server. In other words, the "src=" tags should refrence an http path, rather than standard root folder file paths. (For example, "http://yoursite.com/images/image1.gif." Of course you have to remember to make sure the image files are actually there before you send off the e-mail. This same concept also applies to CSS files if you're using them. Reference them remotely.
2) In OE6, open a blank new message, then make sure SOURCE EDIT is checked on the VIEW menu. This will give you three tabs at the bottom of the window: EDIT, SOURCE & PREVIEW.
3) Paste your HTML into the "SOURCE" tab view. Then use PREVIEW to make sure your remote image links are resolving. (This is cool because it actually gives you a "live" view of your HTML.)
4) Go to the FORMAT menu in your OE message window and UNcheck the SEND PICTURES WITH MESSAGE option. This is important -- your poste may bounce or you images may get messed up if you don't perform this step.
5) Go back to the EDIT tab and do a spell check.
6) Send a test message to yourself and check the received message just to make sure everything looks good.
7) When you're happy with everything, send it off to your MajorDomo list address.
That's it!
I normally design my newsletters in Dreamweaver, then copy-and-paste the source code into Outlook. Here's my process:
1) Make sure all of your image source references point to Insert remote web server. In other words, the "src=" tags should refrence an http path, rather than standard root folder file paths. (For example, "http://yoursite.com/images/image1.gif." Of course you have to remember to make sure the image files are actually there before you send off the e-mail. This same concept also applies to CSS files if you're using them. Reference them remotely.
2) In OE6, open a blank new message, then make sure SOURCE EDIT is checked on the VIEW menu. This will give you three tabs at the bottom of the window: EDIT, SOURCE & PREVIEW.
3) Paste your HTML into the "SOURCE" tab view. Then use PREVIEW to make sure your remote image links are resolving. (This is cool because it actually gives you a "live" view of your HTML.)
4) Go to the FORMAT menu in your OE message window and UNcheck the SEND PICTURES WITH MESSAGE option. This is important -- your poste may bounce or you images may get messed up if you don't perform this step.
5) Go back to the EDIT tab and do a spell check.
6) Send a test message to yourself and check the received message just to make sure everything looks good.
7) When you're happy with everything, send it off to your MajorDomo list address.
That's it!
D9R said:
I did some testing as you suggested:jlasman said:
1. I subscribed to a list via email -- majordomo took the email address and ignored the 'From' line, and DirectAdmin displays it as:
[email protected]
2. Then I added emails via the DirectAdmin control panel. DirectAdmin makes the entire thing an email link rather than just the email part, but majordomo appears to handle it fine:
John Smith <[email protected]>
[email protected] (John Smith)
3. I tried removing them via email -- it won't work if you have multiple entries with the same email (as in my #2 example) -- in that case use the DA control panel.
4. Back to having one entry per email, I was able to unsubscribe each format via email and it works fine.
This is great because it means I can create my list with each person's name next to his email -- giving me a way to know who's on the list. If someone subscribes by email the name won't be there, but I can always add it later if I figure out who they are.
nobaloney
NoBaloney Internet Svcs - In Memoriam †
The most important secret for html email is:
Always have a non-html component with the same text content, so those people who won't ever look at html email will still see something and so your blind readers will still be able to read it using "blind-reader" software.
There are a lot of people like me who won't ever turn on html email because we know that's how most system infections happen. If I get an email with only an html part and no text part, I send it back with a note saying I can't read it.
If I get on a mailing list with only html email, I unsubscribe.
I make no exceptions; all modern email clients that can send html email can also send a plain-text part; it's simply a matter of setting them up properly.
Because I don't read html email, I'll be happy to test your email for you to make sure it's readable, but if you're going to test through me then write me first and have me set up an address for you, as if it comes to my regular addresses and is html without plain text I'd end up just deleting it.
If you've got an announcement-only list, and follow the caveats above, you don't have to worry about html email, because it's not going to end up in digests. But if you've got a discussion list, you'll find soon enough how html breaks discussion lists archives.
Jeff
Always have a non-html component with the same text content, so those people who won't ever look at html email will still see something and so your blind readers will still be able to read it using "blind-reader" software.
There are a lot of people like me who won't ever turn on html email because we know that's how most system infections happen. If I get an email with only an html part and no text part, I send it back with a note saying I can't read it.
If I get on a mailing list with only html email, I unsubscribe.
I make no exceptions; all modern email clients that can send html email can also send a plain-text part; it's simply a matter of setting them up properly.
Because I don't read html email, I'll be happy to test your email for you to make sure it's readable, but if you're going to test through me then write me first and have me set up an address for you, as if it comes to my regular addresses and is html without plain text I'd end up just deleting it.
If you've got an announcement-only list, and follow the caveats above, you don't have to worry about html email, because it's not going to end up in digests. But if you've got a discussion list, you'll find soon enough how html breaks discussion lists archives.
Jeff
"There are a lot of people like me who won't ever turn on html email because we know that's how most system infections happen."
--- How so? Reading HTML email is dangerous security-wise? It's different than reading webpages?
I have EarthLink's TotalAccess MailBox email program. It seems to be relatively advanced and I like it, but it has 3 problems as far as I can tell (I might be wrong but I've looked all over and can't find these 3 features):
1- Received email can only be read as HTML. There's no option to read received mail as plain text.
2- Sent email can go as HTML or plain text, but not both. It's one or the other.
3- When sending HTML email, there's no way to insert hand-coded HTML. You can only compose HTML with the wysiwyg editor.
I have Outlook Express-6, and it may have the above 3 features -- I'm not sure.
I figure I should try Mozilla Mail (1.5 or 1.6) because I've heard good things about it, and I'm not "required" to use Outlook. After a quick look around the panel I found each of the above 3 features apparently is there (along with lots of other features that look like they'll be fun to use).
So why am I writing this? Maybe to get a confirmation that Mozilla is a good email program to use. It looks good to me anyway. (I realize this is getting a bit off-topic, but maybe the topic police won't notice
)
--- How so? Reading HTML email is dangerous security-wise? It's different than reading webpages?
I have EarthLink's TotalAccess MailBox email program. It seems to be relatively advanced and I like it, but it has 3 problems as far as I can tell (I might be wrong but I've looked all over and can't find these 3 features):
1- Received email can only be read as HTML. There's no option to read received mail as plain text.
2- Sent email can go as HTML or plain text, but not both. It's one or the other.
3- When sending HTML email, there's no way to insert hand-coded HTML. You can only compose HTML with the wysiwyg editor.
I have Outlook Express-6, and it may have the above 3 features -- I'm not sure.
I figure I should try Mozilla Mail (1.5 or 1.6) because I've heard good things about it, and I'm not "required" to use Outlook. After a quick look around the panel I found each of the above 3 features apparently is there (along with lots of other features that look like they'll be fun to use).
So why am I writing this? Maybe to get a confirmation that Mozilla is a good email program to use. It looks good to me anyway. (I realize this is getting a bit off-topic, but maybe the topic police won't notice
)
nobaloney
NoBaloney Internet Svcs - In Memoriam †
If you're going to a webpage, it's usually because you want to go there, or because an html email sent you there without you realizing it.D9R said:
HTML email can, for example, tell you it's going to paypal.com where you should re-enter your credit card information and your pin number. PayPal never does that but "phishers" do it all the time to steal your identity. If you weren't using HTML you'd see the real address and know it wasn't at the PayPal site.
HTML email can also open up active-X programs and install viruses on your system; until recently that was the number one way that viruses got installed.
HTML email often displays graphics in such a way as to return your identity to the sender (usually a spammer) as part of their server logs.
HTML email takes at least twice as much data-transfer to send and to receive; often three to ten times as much. Email was never designed to carry anything besides plain-text messages.
If you're right, and I have no reason to believe you're wrong, then it's a lousy program; get rid of it. I can't even try it, myself, because I don't allow Windows systems anywhere near the Internet; I use Linux on the 'net.
If you're right, and again, I have no reason to believe you aren't, then that's [b[good[/b]; if you're going to create complex html email then you really need to know what you're doing, and the entry bar should be high. For markets who insist on html email for marketing we recommend "Subscribe Me"; it allows you to create HTML emails and properly creates the mime-parts so they won't break in a client reader.
Have you ever gotten what looked like an html email but didn't open as html, usually from a spammer? That's because they have no idea how to successfully send html email.
Outlook Express is the most broken email program on the Internet. It's very hard to set up defaults so it's outgoing emails meet what the rest of the world calls "standards". Using it would be a step backwards for anyone. My opinion, anyway.
Mozilla Mail is a good package; I don't use it because as lean as it's become, it's still too bloated for my test.
I use KMail. It runs well under X, it can search the bodies of tens of thousands more quickly than any other email program can search one thousand, it allows you to play different wavefiles based on email filtering (we use it so we hear a loud bell when someone sends email to support).
Of course it requires a Linux desktop, but that's a good thing
.Jeff
Some day I'm planning to install and run Linux and Apache as a test server -- figure it will be a good learning experience. I'm just waiting till I pick up a spare box.
Yesterday I set up Mozilla Mail and I'm very pleased with it. It was easy to learn my way around it and within an hour or so I had 10 POP3 accounts for my domains working and everything was organized very well. Remember that I've never used a real email client before -- 6 days ago I was an AOL user with all of its limitations; since then I've started using EarthLink and DialUpNetworking, Mozilla, Mozilla Mail, POP3 accounts with my domains, etc etc etc. As someone else said: "Welcome to the internet."
It's as though I've been living in a world of black and white and just discovered color. Who would have thought email could be so exciting?It sounds like you're saying HTML email is totally different from HTML webpages. I thought I'd just copy the mime-parts from email I've received. It isn't like I need to send HTML email; it just seemed like a fun thing to play with a little bit.
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nobaloney
NoBaloney Internet Svcs - In Memoriam †
May I send a copy of your post to a friend who I've been trying to get off AOL for years? I'd love to see him on the real InternetD9R said:6 days ago I was an AOL user with all of its limitations; since then I've started using EarthLink and DialUpNetworking, Mozilla, Mozilla Mail, POP3 accounts with my domains, etc etc etc. As someone else said: "Welcome to the internet."
.What I'm really trying to say is that html email is a bad idea, that email was never deisgned for html email, that most of viruses and worms that spread on the Internet wouldn't if not for html email, that html email breaks mailing lists and archives, and that html shouldn't be used in email. Now have I made myself clear?
I don't do enough html email to have any idea if that'll work or not. However there are lots of other issues. For example, you have to either include images, etc., in the email or point to them somewhere on the 'net. Lots of people with dialup connections read email offline, so they won't see your pretty pictures if you point to them on the 'net. Lots more won't download from the 'net any references in an HTML email, in an attempt to keep from getting viruses, etc.
So you'll have to learn how to include images in your html email. Which will mean your emails will be over ten times the size they'd be if they were text emails, and waste lots of bandwidth as they traverse the 'net.
If you don't need to do it, then don't
.Jeff
Sure, you can send him a copy of my post. While you're at it you might also like to show him another version that I wrote at HiveMinds.info - http://hiveminds.info/phpBB/viewtopic.php?p=35666#35666 .
I've heard for a long time that AOL isn't a "real" ISP. But hearing about it is different from actually experiencing it, and now that I've experienced it first-hand, even I am incredulous that I took so long to switch. Cost was an issue - I was using someone else's AOL account for free. But if I could do it over again I'd sign up for one of those no-frills ISPs that charge about $10/month. Even I could have found another $120/year. Oh well, live and learn.
The thing I really like the most is being able to use my domains for email now. AOL blocks port 22 or port 25, or whatever port it is. And they don't allow you to use their SMTP mail server. The result is there's no way (other than web mail) to send mail from your own domains.
There are tons of other reasons I dislike AOL: they don't allow you to use newsgroups, they don't work on the DirectAdmin control panel, they don't work on certain variations of the phpBB forum, they're wide open for hackers to find your screen name and then send you spam (I even had someone hack into my AOL account once and send spam from it), their proxy caching is mildly annoying, and I hate hearing the grammatically incorrect "You've Got Mail". But the biggest reason I'm happy now is I'm able to use my POP3 accounts. Anyway, as someone said to me once, "don't get me started on AOL."
I've heard for a long time that AOL isn't a "real" ISP. But hearing about it is different from actually experiencing it, and now that I've experienced it first-hand, even I am incredulous that I took so long to switch. Cost was an issue - I was using someone else's AOL account for free. But if I could do it over again I'd sign up for one of those no-frills ISPs that charge about $10/month. Even I could have found another $120/year. Oh well, live and learn.
The thing I really like the most is being able to use my domains for email now. AOL blocks port 22 or port 25, or whatever port it is. And they don't allow you to use their SMTP mail server. The result is there's no way (other than web mail) to send mail from your own domains.
There are tons of other reasons I dislike AOL: they don't allow you to use newsgroups, they don't work on the DirectAdmin control panel, they don't work on certain variations of the phpBB forum, they're wide open for hackers to find your screen name and then send you spam (I even had someone hack into my AOL account once and send spam from it), their proxy caching is mildly annoying, and I hate hearing the grammatically incorrect "You've Got Mail". But the biggest reason I'm happy now is I'm able to use my POP3 accounts. Anyway, as someone said to me once, "don't get me started on AOL."
nobaloney
NoBaloney Internet Svcs - In Memoriam †
We're glad to have you aboard, Dean.
Now that you won't have an AOL address you'll find that you might be taken to task for html email.
You see we "know" that AOL users don't know better, but we expect more from a real Internet professional .
Feel free to send me an email. I'll send back a copy of what it looks like to me, and the size.
And I'll send you back a non-html version you can look at, and see the size difference.
Jeff
Now that you won't have an AOL address you'll find that you might be taken to task for html email.
You see we "know" that AOL users don't know better, but we expect more from a real Internet professional
.Feel free to send me an email. I'll send back a copy of what it looks like to me, and the size.
And I'll send you back a non-html version you can look at, and see the size difference.
Jeff
If you go to the majordomo site you will find no explanation of the config settings anywhere.
Just the comment that the config file is "self documenting"
Which I found really confusing because when you request the config file by sending a message to
[email protected]
with
config mylist myadminpassword
you get back a list of settings with no explanation of what they do. Not much help really.
It wasn't till I tried the command to rewrite the config file that I realised that direct admin strips out all the comments.
rewriting the config puts them all back in again. You do this by sending a message to
[email protected]
with
writeconfig mylist myadminpassword
you get back a list of settings with full explanation of what they do. I' would suggest printing this and then using it as a reference when changing the settings in direct admin because each time you use direct admin to set any parameter it strips out the comments again.
Just the comment that the config file is "self documenting"
Which I found really confusing because when you request the config file by sending a message to
[email protected]
with
config mylist myadminpassword
you get back a list of settings with no explanation of what they do. Not much help really.
It wasn't till I tried the command to rewrite the config file that I realised that direct admin strips out all the comments.
rewriting the config puts them all back in again. You do this by sending a message to
[email protected]
with
writeconfig mylist myadminpassword
you get back a list of settings with full explanation of what they do. I' would suggest printing this and then using it as a reference when changing the settings in direct admin because each time you use direct admin to set any parameter it strips out the comments again.
When the list is set so that only specific email addresses are allowed to mail to it, what prevents a creative individual from creating a false email account on their email client - pretending to be one of the allowed addresses, and mailing to the list? It seems to me anyone can create a 'pretend' email account that gives them access to mail to the list.
nobaloney
NoBaloney Internet Svcs - In Memoriam †
Nothing. Majordomo was written back when the Internet was a much friendlier place.D9R said:
Which is why the only safe way to make sure only certain people can write to the list is to moderate the list.
Jeff
Got it. I missed it the first time around when you posted that earlier, but I saw it today while revisiting the thread. Thanks, I'll definitely moderate my lists.jlasman said:
(And by the way, I despise html email -- I only send in plain-text format these days.)