Multiple DA servers and onlye 1 mailserver

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nieuwhier

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Hi all,

I have multiple DA linux servers and multiple windows plesk servers(No I use plesk under windows I love DA even more!).

I am sick of all local mailserver problems, updates, performance etc. So I want to migrate to a situation that I only have one good manageble and scalable mailserver platform for all my DA and PLESK customers with pop3, imap, webmail, calender, antispam, antivirus.

I have looked at some products, some costs money other don't.
- exim/dovecot, spamassassin and clamd and the known webmail clients. Perhaps just a empty DA install wich only handles mail ?
- Icewarp
- http://www.communigate.com
- kerio
- Merak Mail Server 7.6.4
- atmail.com
- others ????

I have to overcome some problems like:
- Usage stats are now easy; I should make my own usage-stats cron that collects the stats from both the mailserver and the DA/PLESK server. Or I just give the client the option to break up X-MB for mail and X-MB for site.
- Migration of exim
- More...

Is there anyone who already uses an environment like this and have some tips ? Also advice on what platform to choose is welcome. It is no problem that it costs money, I do need more than 12.000 mailboxes so unlimited domains/users option and perhaps a cluster option is needed.

Regards.
Michel.
 
Another issue is the creation of accounts. A way to solve this partially, might be the use of all_pre.sh: http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=163.

I might be interested in this. We could maybe combine this with a frontend cluster of servers to handle spam and virus scanning to offload the other servers. This is something we already have, though not specifically for DirectAdmin yet. If you're interested, let me know. I am sure it's possible implement it in your situation as well.

And yes, you can do it in Dutch ;-)
 
Yeah I know the script. The thoughts I have about creating accounts is quit simple.

I don't want any default mailbox anymore(you know, the one with the accountname in it). It happens to often that the user doesn't understand it. I want those mails send to the mailadress I have in our administration system.

When the hostingaccount is created I also want to create a user(not a mailbox) in the third-party system with an API. I will create two mx records in the DNS that point to the 2 mailservers. When the user chooses any mailfunction in the DA control panel I want to redirect him to the configuration screen in the third-party mail. There he can create and manage all the mail functions.

I want the third-party mail system to be able to cluster/Load balance in order to get a High-availability system. So minimal two servers.

To place a spam- and virus scanning solutions in front of it can be interesting but depends on the direction I am going. When I choose a mailserver that has good clustering/balancing options then it want be needed I guess....
 
DirectAdmin isn't made for multi-server communication...

That said:
nieuwhier said:
I don't want any default mailbox anymore(you know, the one with the accountname in it). It happens to often that the user doesn't understand it.
Click to expand...
I agree, but you have to have it; it's part of creating a Linux user. All Linux users can get mail. Perhaps you can create your own skin that doesn't show it, but I don't think so; you should probably discuss this with John at DirectAdmin.
I will create two mx records in the DNS that point to the 2 mailservers. When the user chooses any mailfunction in the DA control panel I want to redirect him to the configuration screen in the third-party mail. There he can create and manage all the mail functions.
Click to expand...
This is going to be hard because DirectAdmin doesn't have an inter-system communications channel.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
I agree, but you have to have it; it's part of creating a Linux user. All Linux users can get mail.
Click to expand...
Well perhaps the aliases file can be of any help to me, I guess I can put in the linux account name there with the real email address of the user.

When I create the DA account with the API I also have to change the DNS through the API with the needed mailsettings. Or I change the DNS templates. Don't know what is better.

In the DA templates I have to adjust this I think (change DOMAIN in the servername):
php_admin_value sendmail_path '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i -f |USER|@|DOMAIN|'

Don't you think I can block/redirect the user to the correct mail interface with http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=163 ?

It is not I want to remove the mailsoftware from each server, I just don't want to use it. With the API I want to change the MX records when I create the account(I already blocked creating domains through DA).

As soon as I make a descision about what type of mailserver I want to start using(that is a realy difficult choice) I install a new DA server with a few accounts on it to test things.
 
jlasman said:
This is going to be hard because DirectAdmin doesn't have an inter-system communications channel.
Click to expand...

There surely is some session data or cookie set during the authentication process of DA. If you change the templates accordingly, I think it should be possible.

Though eventually it might be easier to build everything using the API. Create a separate central control panel for all accounts, while using hooks of the API to manage everything.

Changing configurations after creating an account seems not very logical. I'd prefer using templates for this. Though for some parts it might be easier to use the API.

For instance, we create placeholders for every domain hosted with us. The downside of this approach is, if the customer moves his e-mail to another server, the place holding server will still try and reach him locally. The easiest way to solve this in our situation seems to be using the API. That might apply to you as well.

In regards to the front-end spam/antivirus service, that's completely up to you of course. Myself, I prefer a situation where things are as separated as possible. You know where to find me ;)
 
Just don't forget that DirectAdmin is NOT a set of scripts. One reason it's so secure over the years, and so fast, and uses so little resources, is that it's a closed source compiled C++ program. Yes it has lots of hooks, but the guts are compiled C++.

So you have to use the API and discuss with DirectAdmin Support what you need in the way of new/more/changed APIs.

I believe John has said that implementing DirectAdmin as a multi-server system would take a lot of changes.

There's one Control Panel out there that works well in a multi-server system. I even used to recommend it to people who absolutely needed to use multiple servers. Until it was bought out by the company that is now Parallels.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
There's one Control Panel out there that works well in a multi-server system.
Click to expand...
But Jeff it's not that I want to make DA multi-server, I only want to centralize the mail on one server(and one backupserver) and start using a real mailsystem with calenders, mobile sync etc. No way that I can manage that on all my DA servers :p

As far as I can tell now it is not too hard to adjust things. Website on the DA servers and mail on other servers.

But I will contact DA to check it of course.
Thx for you input anyway! It helps!
 
If you want to setup email accounts through DA on your remote mail server, you do have a few options.

Probably the easier one is to just hide all the links to DA's email bits... then create a User Level plugin in DA.. and use something like mysql to control all the accounts. Have the plugin connect to the mailservers mysql.. then setup the accounts as needed.

Another option is to keep the local list email there... use the DA skins normally.. but remove "exim" from the picture. You'd use the email_create_post.sh (as well as other pre/post.sh scripts) and when a new email account is created in DA.. the script is triggered and syncs all data to your server however you want.
http://www.directadmin.com/features.php?id=298

John
 
Sometimes ago I thought about google gmail mail server using google apps. They have some special API to creating mail boxes etc. What do you think about fully integration with google aps platform - of course only for mail services?
 
I think you should try it if you want to.

And don't forget to tell all your clients to tell all their clients and users (and their clients' users) to read the Google terms of service, which say among other things that Google will keep their email forever, even if they delete it.

(Perhaps you can tell from my tone that I really don't think it's a good idea to use Google for your email; but you can certainly do it if you want.)

John has already given you some ideas on how to go about it.

Jeff
 
Thanks.
Yes I have an idea now how I can do it working fine on servers.

Before I start do engine of new email infrastructure I want to ask you whether you know some cheaper alternatives for atmail.com. Now, I need more that $5k for this :)
 
DirectAdmin Support said:
If you want to setup email accounts through DA on your remote mail server, you do have a few options.
Click to expand...
Thx for your thoughts!

Hiding menuoptions and adding mx records would be enough I think since I will select a mailserver where my customers can login to to create there mailboxes and aliases.

As far I can tell now my choice will be @mail or icewarp(merak).
 
Last edited:
xeryph said:
Before I start do engine of new email infrastructure I want to ask you whether you know some cheaper alternatives for atmail.com. Now, I need more that $5k for this :)
Click to expand...
Cheapest alternative is to use your DirectAdmin server :).

Is there a reason you don't want to just use DirectAdmin to handle your email?

If it's because you need the added stuff you can get with Exchange, etc., then there are some free open-source software packages that work similarly, but the problem is always the connectivity to Outlook. If you don't care about connectivity to Outlook, and will only use email, then you can google for Open Source Exchange Replacement and find a bunch of answers.

I saw: Results 1 - 10 of about 314,000.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
Is there a reason you don't want to just use DirectAdmin to handle your email?
Click to expand...
My thoughts abous this:

The first reason is I have lots of DA servers and a fast growing number of plesk windows servers. All have their own mail (problems). The mail(and therefore spam and virus checks) cost a lot of time(from me) and performance per server. I want to reduce that and move to one mailserver for all linux and windows servers.

Second reason is to add mobile sync, calenders etc. That is how I want to earn the investment back. I have a large enough customer base to make this happen. Only a few % of my customerbase have to buy the extra options and I am break-even and the next year I make money out of it. And I hope to attrackt new customers with it.

I know all(or most of) the open source options but most of them are not scalable and are spread over multiple products. And I want a proven solution.

I am also busy implementing hosted-exchange(there we even had to become a microsoft SPLA reseller :confused:) but the price per mailbox is way to expensive to use this as a basis for everything.
 
xeryph said:
whether you know some cheaper alternatives for atmail.com. Now, I need more that $5k for this :)
Click to expand...
Depends on the options and number of users you need. I want all the options and unlimited users so thats more expensive.

You can also consider one seperate DirectAdmin installation only for mail.

All mail systems have there pro's and con's and depending on your needs and vision one is better than the other. I am testing icewarp now.

icewarp.com
http://www.hmailserver.com/documentation/?page=overview
desknow.com
zimbra.org
http://www.mailenable.com/hosting.asp
http://www.scalix.com/
http://www.open-xchange.com/en/open-xchange-hosting-information-request
 
This is a pretty interesting article.

Lately we been combating with ip's being blacklisted by spam lists causing a bit of grief for some of our users.

Also maintaining a spam blocker on every server is a bit of a chore.
 
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