Requested: Gentoo version

Status
Not open for further replies.
Me three... I was just asking John about this a few days ago. He mentioned that they get 2-3 requests a month but there are no plans currently for a port.
 
Ditto. I have no idea why John isn't planning on a gentoo version. There are more then a few reasons to provide support for it. And I believe there are very few reasons to not. DA Support, whats the deal?

I say we rally! Hell, I spent too much time fixing **** to not have DA working on Gentoo.

-anth
 
Hello, if you could make DA work with Gentoo linux ( www.gentoo.org ) it would be great.
Gentoo is a linux that does not work the .rpms or .debs and so on, like freebsd, i can see that you have support for freebsd, so i think that it wont be so much work to make DA work on gentoo.

Why i want to use gentoo?
I want to use gentoo becous, gentoo working like this:
Compile evry thing with CPU optimizing, wich means that everty thing is optimized to your server and work faster, and the emerge update tool, has a HUGE database of packages availeble.
 
Has anyone done a Gentoo install on typical webserver hardware?

If so, can you tell us how long the install takes?

My big concerns on installing on Gentoo would be:

1) how long does it take to install anything?

2) how long does it take to rebuild a system from scratch if necessary?

3) can the DA customapache system coexist with the Gentoo install system?

Since I can install RHEL/WBEL/CentOS on a bare system in under a half hour, the time element is very important to me.

Jeff
 
Jeff,

The last time I did one, it took about 8 hours. However, that's because I built the entire thing from scratch. If I were setting this up to do repeatedly, I'd get the basics done and then burn an ISO. You could probably get it down to about the same speed as a RH/CentOS type machine.

Rebuilding the machine would be easy at that point.

The custombuild would not be necessary. We could have /usr/local/portage* ebuilds for the programs that DA needs and are non-standard. (exim?)

Most everything else would be handled by portage itself.

=C=
 
1) how long does it take to install anything?

2) how long does it take to rebuild a system from scratch if necessary?

3) can the DA customapache system coexist with the Gentoo install system?
Click to expand...

1) an installetion of gentoo takes about 6-8 houers, becouse gentoo compiles all the packages, and does not use a binary package or so.
why does it compile all the packages?
gentoo compiles every package with system optimization that you configure befor the installation.

2) gentoo is a VERY VERY stable system, and you almost NEVER need to rebuild the system, rebuild will take the 6-8 houers of the installation + if you added packages it will take the time to compile the added packages.

3) i did not get your question, but i think that you are asking, after you install apache/php and so on, if you can modify the config files and the compiled stuff,
and for this one, offcors you can...
 

3) i did not get your question, but i think that you are asking, after you install apache/php and so on, if you can modify the config files and the compiled stuff,
and for this one, of course you can...
Click to expand...

The Exim that DA uses is different that the one Gentoo uses. (Log file names are different, etc.) It would need a custom ebuild for it. That's the only thing I know of (other than the DA ebuild itself) that would need to be custom.

All the other stuff that customapache/build does would be done automatically by portage.

DA would probably have a few customizations to the make.conf and such. required keywords, minimum package versions, etc. Other than that, it would pretty much be an out-of-the box install.

If they ever finish the Gentoo installer, we could write a script for it that would build a DA box automatically.

=C=

p.s., yes, I know, it was not my question. :)
 
I always hated software, *ESPECIALLY* control panels, that installed its own 'services'. That should be left for the actual unix admin to install themselves. (Granted not everyone knows all this unix stuff).

In my opion, the DA install script that downloads all the services etc shouldn't really be a demanded requirement. An install script for manual installs of DA is suggested.

I dislike the whole customapache thing too... While installing from emerge on gentoo is not only the BEST portage system in the world, customizing the install for apache and php is recomended. But doing them with in a directadmin directory isn't the way to go about it.

I have apache, php, and even exim working great on the SUPER FAST system. It's rock solid too, which is more then I can say for other OS's DA does run on.

Word to the wise, go Gentoo.
-anth
 
Gentoo has a lot of tools that will let you create custom "livecds". These are installation cds containing binaries that you compile for specific architectures with specific optimizations. So, if you have a system in place to generate livecds, it's simple to upgrade packages and install directly from binaries. This should actually be FASTER than a Centos/RHE install since you won't have to upgrade to the point release, update to the current errata, etc.

Even without a custom CD, a base installation from a stage 3 CD plus DA's dependencies shouldn't take longer than an hour or two.

I'm envisioning a portage overlay for packages that are specific to DA and require custom patches and then a package.mask that locks DA users into specific versions of certain supported packages (so an upgrade to DA might entail a package.mask modification in order to upgrade to the current version of exim, for example). This allows users to continue to benefit from portage while ensuring that the software required by DA remains at a supported level.

I'm a fan of the customapache system to the extent that it's a customizable, supported feature. I much prefer it to building apache completely by hand or to relying on a binary packager's whims. However, I think that Gentoo's USE flags in combination with Portage and it's dependency resolution, upgrade path, slotting, etc. is by far the best solution I've ever used.
 
OxnardMontalvo said:
All the other stuff that customapache/build does would be done automatically by portage.
Click to expand...
Are you saying there'd be no need for customapache?

The DA staff put a lot of time into CustomApache as their way to keep DA up to date and still allow all of us to have our own custom changes. I don't see how eliminating customapache is a service to the DA community.

Perhaps you're saying that Gentoo users would know enough to do their upgrades themselves, the gentoo way, but from my point of view that's a real nightmare for the DA support community, since DA will end up being blamed for issues that have nothing to do with DA.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
Are you saying there'd be no need for customapache?
Click to expand...

On Gentoo, no, there would be no need for it. Using a portage overlay, custom ebuilds could be made for all packages that are customized for DA. (Much easier than it sounds) Then anytime say Apache was rebuilt, it would use the custom one automatically. As opposed to what I have now on CentOS which is some packages are rpms, some are custom builds and some are custom rpms.

build.sh is great if you don't have anything better but honestly, after a little more than 3 years of working with Gentoo, it IS better. (Disclaimer: I came from RedHat and have ALWAYS disliked rpms because of the difficulty in handling dependencies.)
 
apryan said:
I always hated software, *ESPECIALLY* control panels, that installed its own 'services'. That should be left for the actual unix admin to install themselves. (Granted not everyone knows all this unix stuff).
Click to expand...
Most DA users are not unix administrators.

The other install option for DA would be for DA to check first to make sure that (a) all the required services were installed, and (b) that all the required services put all the required files where DA expects to find them. If not, then DA could simply report the problems and exit.

DirectAdmin, as a control panel, expects to find known services, known programs, known deamons, in known locations, so it can control them. If it doesn't, it doesn't operate.

Of all the control panels I've used, DA is the that gives you the most flexibility. CPanel, Ensim, Sun-Cobalt, Plesk, are all update nightmares if you don't use their own versions of everything.

DA allows the most flexibility I've ever seen; non-administrators can simply use it, while administrators who really want more control can pretty much do anything they want.
In my opion, the DA install script that downloads all the services etc shouldn't really be a demanded requirement. An install script for manual installs of DA is suggested.
Click to expand...
How would you consider DA handle the support issues that might ensue? Do you suggest DA should write a different kind of install script and then have to support every problem that comes up as people try it on machines of unknown configuration? Or do you suggest that DA supply the install script as unsupported software? Or perhaps something else?
I dislike the whole customapache thing too... While installing from emerge on gentoo is not only the BEST portage system in the world, customizing the install for apache and php is recomended. But doing them with in a directadmin directory isn't the way to go about it.
Click to expand...
That's a religious argument. I hereby request that nobody turn this thread into a religious argument about which OS to use; if it happens I'd probably delete the entire thread.

That said, DirectAdmin does things it's own way, and was originally designed to work in a Red Hat Linux environment. Everything else is a port.
I have apache, php, and even exim working great on the SUPER FAST system. It's rock solid too, which is more then I can say for other OS's DA does run on.
Click to expand...
This is another religious argument. How many OS's have you run DA on? Unless you disclose that, your argument is meaningless. For example, we've found DA to be rocksolid on RHEL/CentOS/WBEL.
Word to the wise, go Gentoo.
Click to expand...
The truly wise consider their time, and the availability of support as well.[/quote]
If running DA on Gentoo works fine for you, then that's great. But that doesn't mean it's the best solution for eveyrone.

I'd strongly urge that everyone use an officially supported OS for DirectAdmin unless the user is prepared to manage all her/his support needs.

Jeff
 
gentoo is not for "newbies" lets say it this way, gentoo is for linux advanced admins that know how to work with linux on a high level, if you are not an advanced linux admin, go for fedora/rh and availeble stuff.

buttem line:
we desire for a gentoo version, and it is doable,
i offer my gentoo expertise to DA free no charge to help making the panel availeble on gentoo.
 
Last edited:
OxnardMontalvo said:
(Disclaimer: I came from RedHat and have ALWAYS disliked rpms because of the difficulty in handling dependencies.)
Click to expand...
I built my first hosting company (in 1995) using Slackware (linux kernel version 0.99).

I eventually switched to using Red Hat, as did a lot of other administrators, because when managing a lot of servers I found my time more valuable than anything else, and the Red Hat RPM system, with all it's issues, still made updates fairly easy.

For example, when we build a RHEL/CentOS/WBEL server for DirectAdmin we install onlly a minimum install, and then we have our own tarball of required RPMs, which meet all the dependencies. We install them with a simple "rpm -Uvh *" in the untarred directory, then run either up2date or yum, depending on the version we use. We walk away from the server after a short period of time, and come back later when it's practically all done.

yum handles all depencies quite easily and we're happy with our solution.

If the folk at JBMC can write and update both a RHEL/CentOS/WBEL version of DA, plus other versions including Gentoo, then that's fine. But it's not a large company, and I'd hate to see them stop working on features to continue to add support for additional operating systems.

Jeff
 
micro said:
gentoo is not for "newbies" lets say it this way, gentoo is for linux advanced admins that know how to work with linux on a high level, if you are not an advanced linux admin, go for fedora/rh and availeble stuff.
Click to expand...
You may mean "on a low level" since "high level" refers to using programs that do things for you, and "low level" means getting into the internals of the OS itself. (For example, BASIC is a high-level language, while C++ is a low-level language.)

That said, I'm an advanced unix/linux admin (I've administered unix systems since the 80s and linux systems since 1995, before the kernel version 1.0 release), and I'm very happy to make reasonable (for me) tradeoffs of time and low-level control.

Jeff
 
If the folk at JBMC can write and update both a RHEL/CentOS/WBEL version of DA, plus other versions including Gentoo, then that's fine. But it's not a large company, and I'd hate to see them stop working on features to continue to add support for additional operating systems.
Click to expand...

As a company administrator+techadmin i know that if i got requests for some thing, and im short of time becouse i have a small staff of employees, i would just go and get more employees to help me handle,
saying "we will have too much stuff of our head" is not right for a company.
 
I hesitate to answer you Micro, because I have no idea whether DA has an unlimited budget or not.

But I know I'm struggling with growth right now, and I know that throwing money and people at a problem doesn't always fix it.

Usually as you hire people (especially when you're a small startup hiring your first people) you end up spending a lot more time on training them to do things your way than you save by using them. At least at the beginning.

And then there's the financial issue. If you're a true entrepreneur, then nothing is worth giving up control of your dream, of your company, just to get the money you need to grow.

I've been an entrepreneur most of my life, and have many friends who are also entrepreneurs. It's been our experience that when you either start bringing in venture capital our go public you lose control over your company.

Don't forget that a public company (which is where you eventually go if you want to have unlimited money) is required by law to care more about benefits to stockholders than about benefits to customers.

So I like slow steady growth myself, which often means you don't throw more money and more staff at problems.

Jeff
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top