up2date update

Hello,

For anyone else having up2date issues, find the url to the rpm for your system through the links Jeff has provided.

The rpm should have i386.rpm at the end, and will be specific for your version of redhat. Once you find the url, follow these instructions (replace the url with your url):
Code:
cd
wget [url]ftp://updates.redhat.com/9/en/os/i386/up2date-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm[/url]
rpm -Uvh up2date-3.1.23.2-1.i386.rpm

This example is for redhat 9.0.

John
 
Error Message:
Your demo account has been disabled. To enable your account, you must
verify your email address by visiting:

https://rhn.redhat.com/network/account/change-email.pxt

You may also enable your account by purchasing Red Hat Network service at:

https://rhn.redhat.com/network/sales/index.pxt

Your account name: jprieajr
Current email on file: [email protected]
Error Class Code: 111
Error Class Info: Email address not validated; service disabled

How can I change this accountname and mail adres?
 
If you have a password you should be able to log in with your username and password at the url you posted from the error message.

If you don't have a password you should probably just start over with a new username, email address and password.

You do need to use a valid email address.

RHN validates what they call demo accounts (only one system per account) by email addresses, so if you own an ISP or a domain you can have lots of "demo" accounts :) .

You do have to vist their site and respond to their surveys (which come annoyingly often) to keep your account current.

That's why I switched to apt-get, which is free as in beer (no charge) and as in speech (no limit).

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
If you don't have a password you should probably just start over with a new username, email address and password.

You do need to use a valid email address.
Jeff

How do I start with a new user etc?
 
Sometimes, RingToons, we have to do at least a bit of searching ourselves :) ...

Try:

https://rhn.redhat.com/

The last time I looked there was a link there to "create account"; I don't know if they still allow new "demo" accounts or not.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
Sometimes, RingToons, we have to do at least a bit of searching ourselves :) ...

Try:

https://rhn.redhat.com/

The last time I looked there was a link there to "create account"; I don't know if they still allow new "demo" accounts or not.

Jeff

I was hoping for a answer for the server.
On the server I must change the username and pass.

(so far so good)
 
As I mentioned, Phil, I no longer use up2date, so I'm not up-to-date on it (no pun intended).

I recall there was a recent email sent to Red Hat up2date members explaining how to upgrade up2date because the security cert had expired.

Perhaps that email gives enough information about up2date to figure out where the configuration file is, and perhaps someone who's reading this list can forward it to you.

If not, I'd start by doing:

# locate up2date

and see what I get.

Or switch to apt-get, as I keep hinting :) .

Jeff
 
I'm currently using apt-get and will publish a howto on installing it as soon as I can take the time.

I can also install it, but I don't log into other people's systems except under contract.

I'm still not 100% sure apt-get can be safely used in an automated mode, since DA installs so much by compilation rather than from rpm.

Jeff
 
Hoorah for Fedora (aka community-devloped Red Hat), check this out from the release notes of recent betas:

"The Red Hat Update Agent (up2date) now supports installing packages from apt and yum repositories as well as local directories. This includes dependency solving and obsoletes handling. Additional repositories can be configured in the /etc/sysconfig/rhn/sources file."

The first Fedora branded release is expected at the start of November. Hope DA gets onto it soon...
 
chuckd said:
The first Fedora branded release is expected at the start of November. Hope DA gets onto it soon...
I'm not going to rain on your parade, but I do want to point out that ...

It took three years between the time Netscape created Mozilla and Mozilla actually became a reasonable solution.

Jumping on the Fedora bandwagon may or may not be a good idea. That's something we don't know yet and won't know until after we see the first release.

The biggest problem isn't whether or not up2date supports Fedora, or apt-get, or anything else, but whether or not there'll be a community offering RPMs to plug newly-discovered securities. And for how long after a release.

The fact that Fedora plans to create new releases several times a year is a major disadvantage, unless you always want to be behind, or always want to be on the bleeding edge, or always want to be rebuilding your systems.

For example, Red Hat has already dropped security updates for most retail versions of their operating systems, and will drop support for the rest by the end of April of 2004. Who, then, is going to update those repositories?

Stability is the most important thing you can have in a webhosting server; I'd rather have a system that needs rebooting once every two years than one that needs rebuilding twice a year.

And that's why I, for one, have committed to DA on FreeBSD, at least for the forseeable future.

Jeff
 
Right on, I agree with you in that Fedora probably won't be great to run on production servers. In fact I'm planning on running RHEL. I wouldn't mind moving to FreeBSD but I don't have the energy to switch our servers.

This is a strange comment to me:
The fact that Fedora plans to create new releases several times a year is a major disadvantage
Ahm yes but then how many new releases did Red Hat used to make in a year? Answer: varies, but about 2 per year. And how many are Fedora going to make? 2/3 per year. Whoa, big difference. My production servers have only ever seen RH6.0(urgh, still have nightmares),6.2,7.1,9. There's no reason why it should be worse with Fedora - you wait out the releases until they're good enough or the current one's been obsolete (and that's generally the fault of the requirements of packages such as PHP & Perl long before RH's EOL).

The thing to note also when comparing Mozilla & Fedora is that Netscape was a pretty crap piece of software, open sourced to try and improve in quality & save money. It required a complete change in the way the code base was developed. It was a _long_ time till they made a usable release.

RHL, on the other hand, is a quality piece of software, opened up to increase the testing base & save Red Hat money. Red Hat have needed to make only simple changes to the way it's developed. They've already made 2 solid testing releases.

There are just too many people interested in Red Hat for it to fail to create a large enough community for support to be continued. For example there's already a project called Fedora Legacy which aims to maintain support for EOL'd Red Hat products.

Maybe community support will be better & longer than Red Hat provided... Heh one can dream :) .

Chuck
 
chuckd said:
Right on, I agree with you in that Fedora probably won't be great to run on production servers. In fact I'm planning on running RHEL.
Either you're presuming DA will support RHEL, or you're planning on moving to another control panel.

Will I change your mind by pointing out that the price for RHEL is annual, and that before you get it you accept an agreement that they can walk into your office and physically audit you at any time to make sure you own one license for each server your run it on?
I wouldn't mind moving to FreeBSD but I don't have the energy to switch our servers.
I never switch pre-existing servers. I create new ones and every few years I clean out old ones. This year I retired a Sun Cobalt RaQ4; it took a bit over a week, and I only got one customer call, even though just about everything changed, including email logins. It was made easy by the fact that we weren't hosting php or MySQL on that server, so it held only static sites.

I also retired a Plesk system; that was a bit more complex because DA has a different naming convention for MySQL databases and users. But it went without a hitch as well.

In both cases we did it because we didn't trust the underlying operating systems anymore; the RaQ was running a system based on RHL 6.2, and the Plesk server RHL 7.1.
Ahm yes but then how many new releases did Red Hat used to make in a year?
It's not just how many releases but how long the releases were supported. And for fedora, that remains to be seen.
There's no reason why it should be worse with Fedora - you wait out the releases until they're good enough or the current one's been obsolete (and that's generally the fault of the requirements of packages such as PHP & Perl long before RH's EOL).
Or they become obsolete because no one's releasing RPMs to fix compromises; that's the biggest problem. With RH's new one year EOL security becomes a problem long before feature creep. Did the fedora project indicate how long their releases would get security updates?
RHL, on the other hand, is a quality piece of software, opened up to increase the testing base & save Red Hat money. Red Hat have needed to make only simple changes to the way it's developed. They've already made 2 solid testing releases.
As a business user to whom the stability of hosting software is of primary importance, I can't rely on hopes, guesses, and interpolations. I've got to feel comfortable that my software will stay supported, secure, and reliable. Perhaps Fedora will be the best thing since sliced bread. I won't rely on that, though, until it has a history. Especially since FreeBSD is out there, has a history, and is a very stable, supported and secure platform.

Perhaps I feel better about FreeBSD because I owned an ISP that relied on BSD (actually BSDi OS; the pay-for-license version) for years; I have a good bit of experience with BSD, and I'm not afraid to use it.
There are just too many people interested in Red Hat for it to fail to create a large enough community for support to be continued.
I hope you're right.
For example there's already a project called Fedora Legacy which aims to maintain support for EOL'd Red Hat products.
Thanks for this link; I'll check it out.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
Either you're presuming DA will support RHEL, or you're planning on moving to another control panel.

Hey, haven't installed any CP yet =). They all suck as far as I can tell. DA seems to suck the least but also doesn't do everything I need...

Is it really much of a presumption to think DA will support RHEL? Given its target market and the very little difference (for DA's purposes) between RHEL and basic RH. Or am I wrong?

Will I change your mind by pointing out that the price for RHEL is annual, and that before you get it you accept an agreement that they can walk into your office and physically audit you at any time to make sure you own one license for each server your run it on?

I didn't say my mind was made up...

But 1st: I think you mean the price for RHEL includes a year of support. It's not an annual license. 2nd: urgh, stupid legal goons but I'm not too concerned, if I decide to use it then I'm happy to pay for it as I should.

Still I agree with you about FreeBSD, damn fine piece of software. Solid community that cares about rock solid software. Probably would be fine for us now - a few years back it just wasn't feasible because our customers always wanted the latest PHP module/etc and getting them running on FreeBSD sucked.

Maybe I should make the effort. Heh...

=) Chuck
 
chuckd said:
Hey, haven't installed any CP yet =). They all suck as far as I can tell.
I've thought for years now that the word suck has been overused by many of us in this business...

Be that as it may, you can always write your own, but you can't keep customers in today's world unless you offer them the ability to manage their own account.

I owned what may have been the first hosting company (certainly one of the first ten) beginning back in late '94 (sold it in mid '95). We took orders via email or over the phone, and made changes ourselves (using linux kernel version 0.99). That model no longer works. And it certainly doesn't scale.
DA seems to suck the least but also doesn't do everything I need...
What do you need?
Is it really much of a presumption to think DA will support RHEL? Given its target market and the very little difference (for DA's purposes) between RHEL and basic RH. Or am I wrong?
The only panel I know of that has announced support for RHEL is Plesk, and I don't think they've formally announced it on their website yet (we're still listed by them as a Gold Partner). I think you're wrong, because I don't think too many hosting companies are going to be willing to pay <> $1,500/year/server for RHEL.
I think you mean the price for RHEL includes a year of support. It's not an annual license.
Oh yes it is... here's a quote from section 4 of their license (REPORTING AND AUDIT):
The amount of the payment deficiency will be determined by multiplying the number of underreported Installed Systems or Services by the annual fee for such item.
They certainly do expect you to pay annually per server.
Still I agree with you about FreeBSD, damn fine piece of software. Solid community that cares about rock solid software. Probably would be fine for us now - a few years back it just wasn't feasible because our customers always wanted the latest PHP module/etc and getting them running on FreeBSD sucked.

Maybe I should make the effort. Heh...
Maybe you should :) .

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
I've thought for years now that the word suck has been overused by many of us in this business...

It seems quite suited to me. I've been quite surprised at the low quality of the available CPs. Indeed as you recommended we did write our own but I didn't have the energy to keep adding features such that it would compare with the ones out there. It lets people change their aliases, that's #1 requirement for most of our users. Of course a reseller system would be nice.

What do you need?

A reseller system - pretty standard requirement, most of my customers are web designers who have maybe 10 sites each. A domain management system (i.e. User part of DA) - add/remove POP3/IMAP accounts, manage FTP users, etc.

DA seems quite nice to me, the main issue now is IMAP support (we need it). Other than that I'm looking to get it running within a few days.

They certainly do expect you to pay annually per server.

That quote from the agreement doesn't say that buying RHEL is buying an annual fee. It seems to cover the case in which it did though. Of course you do have to pay for RHN access but so then what's changed? And I don't know how you get a $1500/year figure - Enterprise Server (which you'd use for web servers/etc) is $349 for the Basic edition. Assuming RHEN costs are similar to RHN (maybe a bad assumption), you'd then be paying $60/year after the first year for RHN access. After 2 years you'd probably upgrade, another $349 I assume. Yeah it's not great but it's still quite a lot less than you pay for most CP software, and interestingly close to the cost of DA (assuming the $29/month rate, $348/year).

Not that I'm defending the costs particularly or saying it's amazingly cheap, just correcting your hyperbole...
 
Not that I'm defending the costs particularly or saying it's amazingly cheap, just correcting your hyperbole...
My hyperbole (as you put it) comes from discussions months ago with a RedHat Press Representative, soon after the Enterprise products were announced.

Since I'm not interested in buying the product I haven't called back, but I will, and I'll try to get to the bottom of this.

Jeff
 
The up2date mods are now done as part of the latest install
scripts correct?

-3j
 
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