Transfer clients to a new server

floyd said:
I think trying to use multi-server is a mistake for this process.
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could be, but I'd like to:
  1. get an automated IP change process.
  2. enjoy this feature in the future as well.
so the bug should be fixed anyway... :)
 
MtK said:
get an automated IP change process.
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I guess I am not understanding you. Especially if you are only doing one user at a time its very easy to modify the user to use the new ip.
 
floyd said:
I guess I am not understanding you. Especially if you are only doing one user at a time its very easy to modify the user to use the new ip.
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yes, you understood me right, and yes, I know that in a client-per-client process it's easy to modify the IP.
I'm just thinking about the fact that more than one admin will be doing the actuall client-transfer and I want to ease the pain a little more, by making the actual IP change for them (which again, is something that should work anyway)...
 
If you turn off multi-server then problem solved.

I think there is something missing in your thinking somewhere and I have not identified it yet. Please don't take that as an insult. We have all been there.

DNS is currently hosted on the old server, correct?

Turn off multi-server. You do not need it unless you have DNS hosted on two different servers already. But this would have nothing to do with the new server.

Change the ip for the user on the old server to the new ip.

You are done with ip change.
 
floyd said:
If you turn off multi-server then problem solved.
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multi-server is not interfering the move process, it's just not doing its job properly.

I think there is something missing in your thinking somewhere and I have not identified it yet. Please don't take that as an insult. We have all been there.

floyd said:
DNS is currently hosted on the old server, correct?

Turn off multi-server. You do not need it unless you have DNS hosted on two different servers already. But this would have nothing to do with the new server.

Change the ip for the user on the old server to the new ip.
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correct, and will be that way until the last client is moved (!).

now, let me give you an example where multi-server is needed regardless of the transfer process:
  1. let's assume for the moment that my domain is DOMAIN.COM, and the clients use NS1.DOMAIN.COM & NS2.DOMAIN.COM - reminding you this is hosted on the old server.
  2. I finish the move of some of the clients, but some of them are still hosted on the old server (as you know, this could be a long process, and might take a few days).
  3. Congratulations! A new client pays for a new hosting package!!! :D
    he will be hosted directly on the new server, but still be using old DNS (meaning NS1&NS2.DOMAIN.COM).
  4. he will add his new domain on the new server...

DNS problem!
(this will obviously happen for an old client adding a new domain on the new server)


having the Zone Transfer enabled on the new server should ensure this problem does not occur - am I right?
 
he will be hosted directly on the new server, but still be using old DNS (meaning NS1&NS2.DOMAIN.COM).
Click to expand...

Solution: Change the ip for ns2.domain.com to the new server.

The ns1 will not answer for the new domains for the new client so the request will then inquire of ns2. The request may actually inquire of ns2 first since there is no primary and secondary anymore.

ns2 will not answer for the old domains for the old clients who have not been moved yet. Same situation as above.

By changing the ip for ns2 to that of the new server you satisfy the requests of old clients who have not been moved yet and the new clients on the new server. The old clients that have been moved will been served by either ns1 or ns2. You just have to make sure the ip address is correct on both servers.

By the way this is not a theory. I am currently doing this for the last week and probably for at least another week.
 
floyd said:
Solution: Change the ip for ns2.domain.com to the new server.

The ns1 will not answer for the new domains for the new client so the request will then inquire of ns2. The request may actually inquire of ns2 first since there is no primary and secondary anymore.

ns2 will not answer for the old domains for the old clients who have not been moved yet. Same situation as above.

By changing the ip for ns2 to that of the new server you satisfy the requests of old clients who have not been moved yet and the new clients on the new server. The old clients that have been moved will been served by either ns1 or ns2. You just have to make sure the ip address is correct on both servers.

By the way this is not a theory. I am currently doing this for the last week and probably for at least another week.
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yes, that would be correct.

but if the Zone transfer would work as described, this wouldn't be an issue at all - and therefor a bug... :D
 
MtK said:
yes, that would be correct.

but if the Zone transfer would work as described, this wouldn't be an issue at all - and therefor a bug... :D
Click to expand...

I am just trying to give you a proven method that will work. While we have discussed this today I have personally transferred over 100 users. Of course I wrote a script that automates the ipswap, suspend, and backup to the new server. I then have to go to the new server and restore and unsuspend. And I do several at a time.
 
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floyd said:
I am just trying to give you a proven method that will work. While we have discussed this today I have personally transfered over 100 users. Of course I wrote a script that automates the ipswap, suspend, and backup to the new server. I then have to go to the new server and restore and unsuspend. And I do several at a time.
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I'm not trying to disprove your method - thanks for that, I will probably use it, since the DA way doesn't work...


I'm trying to show there's a BUG in DA... :P
 
floyd said:
That whole post is a hard way to do it.
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yeah I know, that wasn't my point...




btw, I might have found some information on my actual bug.
I checked the logs on the old server (specially inside DA's), and found a problem:
  • NEW_SERVERS_IP has tried to log in 13 times, unsuccessfully, this time into admin's account ***
  • named[14739]: client 212.150.164.169#21267: received notify for zone 'THE_NEW_DOMAIN_I_TESTED': not authoritative
 
MtK said:
I'm not trying to disprove your method - thanks for that, I will probably use it, since the DA way doesn't work...
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The DA way is what I am using. That is why it is call Admin Backup/Transfer.

The only thing I am doing out of the ordinary is manually adding the new ip in the text files so that I can use the ipswap in the Modify User section. I don't want to add it through IP Management because I do not want it to actually be active on the server but I want to be able to modify users to to the ip.

I'm trying to show there's a BUG in DA... :P
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That might be true. But I believe you are also trying to use muti-server in a way that it was not supposed to be used. It was not supposed to assist in any way of transferring clients that I know of.
 
floyd said:
The DA way is what I am using. That is why it is call Admin Backup/Transfer.

The only thing I am doing out of the ordinary is manually adding the new ip in the text files so that I can use the ipswap in the Modify User section. I don't want to add it through IP Management because I do not want it to actually be active on the server but I want to be able to modify users to to the ip.



That might be true. But I believe you are also trying to use muti-server in a way that it was not supposed to be used. It was not supposed to assist in any way of transferring clients that I know of.
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I agree with your method and as said before I will probably use it.




as for the multi-server setup, it has nothing to do with the transfer now.
it's simply not working...
 
MtK said:
as for the multi-server setup, it has nothing to do with the transfer now.
it's simply not working...
Click to expand...
problem solved!
I have to re-save the password...





so, now that it works, I could should you how it fits to your suggested transfer process:
  1. on the new server, set multi-server with the old server - only Zone Transfer (!).
  2. Make sure the ttl for the zone has already been set to something low and the old ttl has expired. http://help.directadmin.com/item.php?id=87
  3. On the old server change the ip for the user to the new ip - not needed!!!
  4. Suspend the user.
  5. Backup the user.
  6. Transfer the backup to the new server. (Use ftp backup to skip this step.)
  7. Restore the user on the new server.
  8. Unsuspend the user.


that's it, no need to manually edit the DNS records for the clients. they are overriden by the Zone Transfer... :)
 
floyd said:
The ns1 will not answer for the new domains for the new client so the request will then inquire of ns2. The request may actually inquire of ns2 first since there is no primary and secondary anymore.

ns2 will not answer for the old domains for the old clients who have not been moved yet. Same situation as above.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately this is not the way DNS works.

The user's resolver asks all it's nameservers (the ones in the resolv.conf file if the user is using linux or mac desktop, or wherever in Windows). And accepts the first reply. If any of those nameservers have the domain name in cache (that's why they're called caching nameservers) they'll return that data. Otherwise they'll ask all the authoritative nameservers (not one first but for all intents and purposes, simultaneously), moving up through the DNS path (see the man dig for the dig +trace command for insight into how it's done), until they get the answer. Then they'll all pass the answers up to the user's local resolver.

The resolver will accept the first reply it gets.

And there's the problem. The quickest response may very well be the NXDomain from the authoritative server which doesn't have a zonefile. And then the user will get no such domain.

Really.

So the right way to do it is most likely to turn off multi-server, have both nameservers temporarilly pointing to the old machine, making changes on the old machine to point to the new machine, and make new zone files on the old machine while creating the users on the new machine (yes, possibly a bit more manual work than you'd like).

Then when all has been moved, remove the zone files from the old machine (possibly by simply deleting the domains/users, since they're moved), and then turn on multi-server option, with the local zones on the new machine being copied over to the old machine.

Unless I'm missing something, this should work, though perhaps not ideal.

Jeff
 
@MtK:

I just read your last post after my immediately previous post.

So the transfer overrides a local zone? That's actually scary.

Jeff
 
jlasman said:
@MtK:

I just read your last post after my immediately previous post.

So the transfer overrides a local zone? That's actually scary.

Jeff
Click to expand...
not the local, the remote.
when I restore a client on the new server, Zone is being transferred to the old server overriding the zone pointing to the OLD_SERVER_IP with a new zone pointing to the NEW_SERVER_IP...
 
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