What is the future for Legacy DirectAdmin License holders?

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smtalk said:
Yes, it does.
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Yes but only seperately from Directadmin, so not within as asked. DA does -not- allow us to install MariaDB 10.11 seperately as stated by @fln.

Who also said "we took nothing from you", but in fact DA took the upgrades from us, so that statement is not true.
 
@fln
I suggest, Allow people to build/use mariadb version greater than 10.6, But put warning or deprecated due legacy license or alert box after pick dangerous option.

This will we can happy. Let them take responsibility for themself.
 
@jamgames2 installing MariaDB manually does not automatically make DirectAdmin compatible with the installed version. Legacy licenses (and legacy DirectAdmin) does not provide integration with newer MariaDB versions. It does not really matter if it was installed via CustomBuild or manually.

@Richard G, it depends on your point of view. Yes - we stopped providing what was being provided before (continuous integrations with new 3rd party software). But at the same time no - we have not removed any features or integrations that you had before. Integration with new major version of external software could be considered either an update or a new feature. In this particular case we treat it as a new feature which is not available for legacy licenses.
 
fln said:
it depends on your point of view.
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Upgrades are upgrades, so it doesn't depend on the point of view. DA took the upgrades from us. That is what it clearly says, updates/upgrades, it says nothing about integrations and 3rd party software. Later on that 3rd party software was provided seperately too.
You said you didn't take/removed anything, but that is too short. Then you had to say you didn't take any features or integrations.
But you did take the free upgrades, we only have updates now. That is not up to multiple point of views, that is just a fact.
Upgrades are a very clear ICT term. What you do behind the screens with integration has always been done/needed, so that is no point of discussion and has nothing to do with the fact that we can't upgrade to a new MariaDB version because that is waht upgrade means.
 
Richard G said:
Upgrades are a very clear ICT term. What you do behind the screens with integration has always been done/needed, so that is no point of discussion and has nothing to do with the fact that we can't upgrade to a new MariaDB version because that is waht upgrade means.
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Whether it's the owner or no-name admin (is it the same person?), I learned that they don't accept different opinions even if those opinions may seem obvious for a rational person. And it's not even matter of an opinion, as you wrote @Richard G . Just keep the word you've given. Reward your early investors, the DA pioneers, rather than scaring them away. But they don't need us anymore.
 
Just remembered - I also have lifetime Installatron licenses and not only I received support on this issue , but what, they should stop updating web apps (like WordPress 6 would be a Pro feature) for lifetime licenses following DA logic? Guys, you're brilliant.
 
I followed this discussion with great interest. To see if there is any real insight coming from DA on what's going on. Economically these are tough times. Expenses increase and that puts pressure on the cache flow of business. On the other hand sometimes business owners/managers use a business as cash cow killing it in the process.

I really really want to understand reasoning of DA on this. There should a reasonable idea behind these changes I hoped. But I must say I’m struggling to find it.

1. 3rd Party software

Calling MariaDB a 3rd party product is making no sense to me. DA is build upon the tools that make the web: Apache, Nginx, PHP, MySQL, MariaDB, Exim, php-fpm, pure-ftp, dovecot, roundcube, squirrelmail, imagick, lego. DA without them is nothing. DA itself only registers users and domains and puts them in a list. This is only useful if DA then uses this information to setup these tools. These tools are not 3rd party, there the foundation of DA. Just as CustomBuild is not a seperate thing but a integral part of the DA ecosystem.

A 3rd party tool would function seperate. My system connecting to DA by API is a 3rd party tool. MariaDB cannot be a thirth party tool.

2. End-of-life life-time-licenses

Security is becoming more and more important in this world. Therefor keeping software up-to-date is more important than ever. Running EOL life software on a production system is not a good move. This should be avoided at any cost. This should be a base principle of DA. Keeping the tools they are built on up-to-date should be you’re core business, not some optional extra.

Refusing to upgrade the mariadb release past a certain version makes directadmin[SK1] legacy go EOL when that MariaDB version does. Directadmin going end-of-life while having a life-time-license is a really weird thing. These words should not belong in the same sentence. It makes no sense.

And yes I agree keeping your tools (your foundation) up-to-date cost time and money. However I don't believe each new MariaDB changes the whole ecosystem and connection dialect. It's still create users, databases and right. The commands do change over time. But you only implement it once for all customers. Since you have non-legacy customers you need to support mariadb 10.11 for. You already have the code. It's already done. As a matter of fact DA admitted some customers had already upgraded and had to downgrade.

Supporting legacy customers with MariaDB versions cost you nothing extra! It's not that you cannot support mariadb 10.11, it's simple you don't want to. You using it to create a pay-wall.

3. Clear communication

You website still talks about the pro pack (https://www.directadmin.com/whats_new.php). However the docs say the pro package no longer exists (https://docs.directadmin.com/getting-started/pro-pack/overview.html). You now decided to go for a unified code base. Which is great for you. You communication is hover not clear.

Nowhere in the docs is there any information about features of the software not working for legacy users. It’s like you keeping it a secret trying to hide it.

Changing your license model can be good thing for your business. However don’t hide it for people and create invisible paywalls bullying people into converting to a new plan. Upsell these changes. I read most new clients us the pro pack (https://docs.directadmin.com/getting-started/pro-pack/license-changes.html) . Great for you! That’s probably because every time I opened DA information about it was there. However with the licenses changes since last august there is no communication in the DA program. Al info on the pro package is gone, the name of my license changed to legacy overnight. But no info about how I can get a license, what the advances for me are. Upselling a customer a new license a far better way to do business then blocking there business and thereby betraying there trust.

How does DA communicate to me as a customer of your product? How did you try to bind and keep me as a customer. Right now I feel alienated and bullied.

4. Give perspective

I currently have 3 servers running DA. I have a license through a datacenter and pay EUR 9 a month for each server. I need to keep my php, apache, exim and mariadb up-to-date to run my business. And I also need the new features of upcoming releases of these tools. We build our product on them and us DA to maintain our servers and keep everything running up-to-date.

To keep my business going a now need to order 3 licenses as $ 29 to keep my machines up-to-date. I don’t get a discount because I don’t have license right now through DA but through the data center. So instead of € 324 a year I have to pay you $ 1.044. So you need $ 700 extra for let me see, the same features I already paid for every month?????? You keep saying you don’t take away anything from you customer. But you do. The custombuild stopped maintaining the tools DA is based on.

You basically blocking my system from installing mariadb 10.11 beside directadmin on a legacy license keeping my system hostage. Basically the same thing randsomware does. Pay me $ 700 a year on your systems setup goes EOL.

What’s my perspective? How do I continue my business. And if you buy a license from you, what’s in it for me. My server provider will no longer support the installation as the license is not through them. I will then need support from you. The information about the DA product it not up-to-speed. Documentation is lacking. Do you give a good support? (In the past I made several attempt of showing bugs on these forums, but they are still in product, nobody seems to care). Do you honor your contracts? Are you a trustworthy business partner?

Please give us some perspective!!! I really love the power of custombuild. I really want to use DA. I really want to understand you and trust you. Please show us we can!

Sebastiaan
[SK1]
 
@sekorulez you described exactly what all of us here think about the change. There isn't any possible explanation at all. But appealing to their morality won't work, no matter the facts. And asking to give back what belongs to you will only hurt your self respect in the end. It is immensely sad, but even if they would reverse their decision (which is naive to expect), you can't trust a company with mindset like this anymore.
 
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This is from April 2005.

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There's no secret that those lifetime licenses brought us some happiness, security for the future, and we treated them as one of the best investments we made. I imagine those with tens or hundreds might get really depressed. And if during these hard times such person would commit suicide, wonder if DA guy would be charged with involuntary manslaugter.. But well, hope we never know.
 
If we do the math.... the Nr of LLH licenses, the price for 1 year..... we can hire a software development company to do a completely new, and - completely open source panel for all of us, and let DA sink out of existence.

Hell, place it on github, we can all contribute. See how their attitude changes from "extortion" to "oh sh**".
 
LoL, in fact you're right, but for 1 year. Same could be done for Plesk or even cPanel.
The trick is every update, and every new version, make it compatible so accounts of Roundcube and phpmyadmin can be used and updates are done correctly with backups on updates and quota integration and so on, whatever is needed.
But one never knows what's possible.

There are open source panels already out there, several, so I don't think that is going to change a lot for DA.
 
Richard G said:
LoL, in fact you're right, but for 1 year. Same could be done for Plesk or even cPanel.
The trick is every update, and every new version, make it compatible so accounts of Roundcube and phpmyadmin can be used and updates are done correctly with backups on updates and quota integration and so on, whatever is needed.
But one never knows what's possible.

There are open source panels already out there, several, so I don't think that is going to change a lot for DA.
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Because these open source panels are not on DA's level. We could choose one and bring it up to speed.
 
Yes, but you would need very good and more important... trustworthy programmers for it. If the current open source panels are not yet on this DA level yet, then I don't expect it to happen any time soon. But ofcourse, anyone is free to try. Good professional and free panels are always welcome.
 
a) they must program the code for either system, so no prob to provide it to lifetime license holders
b) they gain more money with the new system, so they could easly afford the development costs
c) they promised it
 
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Well they do manage to alienate an existing customer base, personally going from "fan", to "never again", so that's at least a win.
 
wila said:
going from "fan", to "never again", so that's at least a win.
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Well I tend to highly doubt that "never again" section. As their normal prices didn't raise since 2008, unlike Plesk and especially cPanel.
And except for the Plesk VPS license, they are still cheaper than the rest with the normal prices. Especially if you have 1 of 2 licenses and use the upgrade option.
For multiple licenses it's not interesting.
It's still leaving the lifetime upgrade agreement, so trust will go down the drain a lot.
 
Generative transformed interpretation of my brain how DA would actually respond with straight truth to you @wila

Sure, thanks for donation, forever has expired, you're free to leave without any hesitation. Unless you pay discounted monthly price, which is an exclusive deal and you don't value that at all.

Where will go and what will you change? Aren't we still providing the best web panel for the price? I'm not asking for your opinion here - we know the answer already.

Talking about lifetimes - let's be real, where will you get lifetime care for free? I'm not your mother. Businesses need money and everyone picks strategy for themselves. Removing internal pricing worked perfectly, so I don't expect any different with lifetime products. Just deleting them would be too straightforward, but boiling you like frogs in two years is so much better idea.

You think you'd act any different in my place, seeing so many potential, helpless, non-paying users? I took the chance again. And it worked. Again. So don't teach me until you get in position where you can.

Promises, promises.. That wasn't even me. Just a guy, who needed funds back then. Ask him. And there was different guy who came up with awkward idea of ProPack. But preboiled frog looks better than straight smashed into the wall, you know. That wasn't the same guy despite old and new licenses carry the same "Standard" name, trust me.

Not only you don't value an exclusive deals until they're gone, you don't even value the time I've spent explaining obvious things. I won't reply anymore and I don't bother to read this thread, because - you guessed it right - we know what will happen already. And you won't change anything at all.
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