What is the future for Legacy DirectAdmin License holders?
- Thread starter beansbaxter
- Start date
wila
Verified User
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2017
- Messages
- 91
Not only not happening anymore, but DA insists on alienating their original LLH customer base.
It is utterly baffling to me in how they handle migrating an existing customer base straight to the bin.
Even the most active forum members are starting to throw in the towel.
It is utterly baffling to me in how they handle migrating an existing customer base straight to the bin.
Even the most active forum members are starting to throw in the towel.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2021
- Messages
- 987
This is exactly what is happening. At the time of lifetime license purchase there were no DA integration with the latest DBMS (MySQL 8.4, MariaDB 10.11). You do get DA updates but do not get new integrations, which require substantial integration work. We are not breaking any existing integrations or features.
floyd
Verified User
- Joined
- Mar 29, 2005
- Messages
- 6,290
An existing feature does not have a version number. An existing feature is MariaDB. Adding the latest version of MariaDB is NOT a new integration since it already existed. It is simply an update. Everybody knows this. Now if MariaDB were stopped being developed and disappeared we would not expect you to come up with a replacement since that would be a new integration of a new product. But that is ok. Cpanel and others are waiting for us.
Also it does not cost you anything extra since you are already doing the work. You're just not making any money off of lifetime users and you never will because we do not trust you anymore.
And you have lost community support from the most experienced DA users who also happen to be lifetime users.
Richard G
Verified User
They are indeed breaking the license agreement with that, no further database upgrades, no MariaDB 10.11 and no MySQL 8.4 either.
It's now explained in another way to get passed the fact that they are breaking the license agreement, but in fact what it said in the license agreement was clear, all updates and upgrades, the provided software was mentioned together with the update/upgrades. Next to that it also said "never pay again" on the website.
Also there was never talk about software not included, and if you look at the law, it was always included so customers are allowed to expect it to be included. There is a nice juridical term for that, but it comes down to this in fact.
Lifetime was not only for DA itself. And also various promises about that were even made on the forums here by Directadmin when stating our worries about that when there was talk about the change to the legacy codebase.
But well... seems promises and agreements need to be broken for some reason.
- Joined
- Aug 30, 2021
- Messages
- 987
The message is not present in the plain HTML that is sent from the server. It gets generated by JS. Information is pulled with an API request.
| Name in License | my company name |
| License ID | 11223344 |
| Client ID | 801 |
| License Type | External license |
| DirectAdmin License |
| Check to see if the current software is valid | |
| Valid After | Thu Jun 6 00:46:14 2024 |
| Valid Until | Tue Jan 19 03:14:07 2038 |
| Current Server Time | Mon Jun 10 15:09:19 2024 |
| Time Remaining | 4970 Days, 14 Hours and 4 Minutes |
wayback machine https://web.archive.org/web/20051231062301/http://www.directadmin.com/pricing.html
I always choose the last one. Limited support, and updates for life (Tue Jan 19 03:14:07 2038).
DirectAdmin Pricing Options | All Prices are in US Dollars (USD$) |
Monthly License: $29 / month | Quarterly License: $108 / quarter (works out to $39/month) |
The monthly license is best for hosting companies that prefer a low monthly price with the convenience of full support and automatic upgrades. |
The quarterly license costs approximately 10% less than a monthly license. Quarterly licensing is best for hosting companies that can afford to prepay every three months. |
Yearly License: $200 / year | Lifetime License: $299.00 (one-time, no recurring charges) |
The yearly license costs approximately 20% less than a monthly license. Yearly licensing is a great way to save money while retaining important features such as automatic upgrades and full technical support. |
The lifetime license is best for hosting companies that want DirectAdmin without paying recurring fees. Please note that technical support is limited to 90 days for lifetime licenses. |
I always choose the last one. Limited support, and updates for life (Tue Jan 19 03:14:07 2038).
Richard G
Verified User
It was intended and stated as lifetime. That 2038 date is kind of a Linux year 2000 date. It's not known yet how things will work after that date so Linux choose that date as a temporary end date, it's not DA related.
However, if you look a bit more on the way back machine, you can also see that in the lifetime updates/upgrades the software was included.
So in fact at least MySQL updates and upgrades should be still supported if they say MariaDB was no part of it.
Apart from the fact te laws says, you provided it, people used to it, so legal expectations are made. But oke, if MySQL would still be there, we could still go on. Now we can't in 2026.
Now people who know me also know that I always had DA's back, always was supportive of them. And because of this, when the MariaDB cutback and even MySQL cutback game, like everybody I was very angry.
But DA has always been fair to us. So I also understand that they made a mistake with the kind of lifetime licenses they provided, and no company can keep it working that way on the very long term.
So I could understand that decision, but taking into account they would at least be fair to us until the EOL date in 2026.
However, what they done now has -nothing- to do with this, was not called for, a far better way (in the admin panel) was way more appropriate.
It's just not done to contact -our- customers in whatever way without our consent. They gone to far with that and this is not a fair way of doing business. First breaking agreement and then this.
Agreement, oke, I had understanding for they want to minimalize that.
But this current "information" is really going a step to far and has nothing to do with licenses, no matter if it can be disabled or not, it's just not done this way. Not for -any- reason.
It's our decision which license we have of get or whatever and what we want to provide to our customers and explain things to them if they have questions.
However, if you look a bit more on the way back machine, you can also see that in the lifetime updates/upgrades the software was included.
So in fact at least MySQL updates and upgrades should be still supported if they say MariaDB was no part of it.
Apart from the fact te laws says, you provided it, people used to it, so legal expectations are made. But oke, if MySQL would still be there, we could still go on. Now we can't in 2026.
Now people who know me also know that I always had DA's back, always was supportive of them. And because of this, when the MariaDB cutback and even MySQL cutback game, like everybody I was very angry.
But DA has always been fair to us. So I also understand that they made a mistake with the kind of lifetime licenses they provided, and no company can keep it working that way on the very long term.
So I could understand that decision, but taking into account they would at least be fair to us until the EOL date in 2026.
However, what they done now has -nothing- to do with this, was not called for, a far better way (in the admin panel) was way more appropriate.
It's just not done to contact -our- customers in whatever way without our consent. They gone to far with that and this is not a fair way of doing business. First breaking agreement and then this.
Agreement, oke, I had understanding for they want to minimalize that.
But this current "information" is really going a step to far and has nothing to do with licenses, no matter if it can be disabled or not, it's just not done this way. Not for -any- reason.
It's our decision which license we have of get or whatever and what we want to provide to our customers and explain things to them if they have questions.
DennisNL
Verified User
About the 2038 date.. Mark from DA has sorted this out in this post
Just a quote from there:
Just a quote from there:
DA_Mark Member
July 2019
Yes, it's just a technical limitation for now. From a business perspective it would of been better to hide the date and just display the word "lifetime" but our lead dev prefers the technical transparency. Which is the philosophy behind our software -- to make things easier, but not make you dumb & helpless. So if you see 2038 somewhere else, now you will know why.
Richard G
Verified User
I understand that the recent changes to DA licensing have caused concern, and I want to explain some things one more time (not sure if that's a good idea though?).
Firstly, I want to clarify my personal situation. Due to a severe chronic illness, I am no longer able to contribute to the development of new features as I did in the past. I was not an owner of DA, and I did not ask anything in return. People who work in the team now want they salary and do not agree to work for a small one-time life-time fee to cover life-time development of new features and integrations. Just like many would not want employ people to take care of a server which was rented for a small life-time fee. I personally want DA to survive, and not to be absent of any development. I am not going to make a come-back soon. I do not do any CustomBuild or other development anymore. The only treatment that might help right now isn't for my pocket, so I try to be realistic - changes there aren't going to happen by people who are not getting paid.
As I was main developer of CustomBuild and some other tools (like imports, let's encrypt etc.) - I’ve previously attempted to explain the challenges associated with integrating minor version updates from some vendors, such as the significant effort required to update Exim. It took more than a few days to bring a new version there. These explanations are not excuses but rather an insight into the complexities we face. I commented exact points of what was incompatible and why.
As far as I know, no licenses have been blocked (that have been legally used), and none are associated with end-of-life products at present. I’ve noticed that some concerns and questions raised by the community may have been overlooked, but as I have very limited resources and don't want to get into a fight - I’ve read through the discussions multiple times and have engaged in private conversations with companies and customers who sought a constructive dialogue. I also participated on other forums like LET/WHT.
Regarding decisions and future plans - I've tried comment this in the past - even if many talk about selling to venture capitals or other major changes - these statements are not true, and in some cases quite the opposite. No one ever wanted to sell DirectAdmin, and I am pretty sure that whole team is looking for options to make DA more stable, fully re-write it in Go, write good test-cases etc. and make whole company and customers safe.
To address the specific point about MariaDB integration: you are totally right, it was not a part of majority of life-time licenses, and was introduced there later, like many other things. But even though many still state "those require no work" - I do not agree with that and even gave 2 proofs, one for MariaDB, one for MySQL of things that broke after minor version upgrade: https://forum.directadmin.com/threa...directadmin-license-holders.69159/post-371652. DA did not promise lifetime buyers that new employees would be employed for work on the product, and yes, it was a choice of DA, not to rely on me or John's life-time anymore, as at first he was alone, later - I wanted to improve CustomBuild and started to do it at my own (didn't even know if it'd become a part of DA). I know I strived to enhance the product beyond its original scope, and I know that John didn't want just to stop everything as well.
I want to reiterate that claims about our software reaching end-of-life status within two years are unfounded. And I talked about this as well - OS distributions have backports for OS packages with security fixes until 2032, DA is compatible with these packages.
I’m making this statement in the hope of providing clarity. No one has announced anything yet, no one is affected by EOL software at this time. People are not exposed to any MariaDB/MySQL vulnerabilities as long as OS provide security backports (2032). Those are the main things I wanted to say.
Thank you for your understanding and continued support.
Richard G
Verified User
@smtalk Thank you for your comment. If it's smart I don't know either, but at least you give a try.
I'm sad to hear about your health and hope you will get better, all the best wishes for that.
Many of us know what you did and your great support on the forums too, and be sure we are very thankfull for that, at least I'm for sure and I know others are too. But that doesn't change the fact that certain decisions made now are not fair.
Updates always needed work, but that was in the past the same as now. Nothing changed on that part.
Which is why I said they made some wrong decisions, beneficial for us, but they should not blaim us for choosing what they offer.
That is also why I said I can understand that no company would be able to maintain that kind of lifetime licence.
DA is doing the updates on both and in RHEL the MariaDB and mysql are even disabled in yum. Next to that, in RHEL 9 it's MariaDB 3.x which is in the OS updates, not 10.6. So that doesn't sound unfounded to me at all. It's not the OS becoming EOL but the databases.
Unfortunately this question was not answered.
I hope you can and are prepared to clarify now how an OS supporting Mariadb 3.0 can to backport fixes until 2032 for 10.6 including my argument about things being disabled in yum.conf anyway.
Also I understand all of this, like I explained. But this still is no argument at all, to put such message to -our- customers in any way.
I'm sad to hear about your health and hope you will get better, all the best wishes for that.
Not then. But be honest, you are now right? So at this moment you -are- part of the decision makers of DA.
Many of us know what you did and your great support on the forums too, and be sure we are very thankfull for that, at least I'm for sure and I know others are too. But that doesn't change the fact that certain decisions made now are not fair.
Updates always needed work, but that was in the past the same as now. Nothing changed on that part.
Problem here is that you can not state it like that. We were promised lifetime updates and upgrades. And HOW DA would do that, is totally up to DA. They didn't need to promise us that new employees would or would not be employed for work, that's a company issue, not ours.
Which is why I said they made some wrong decisions, beneficial for us, but they should not blaim us for choosing what they offer.
That is also why I said I can understand that no company would be able to maintain that kind of lifetime licence.
In your last statement I asked you to clarify that more. Because both MariaDB 10.6 and Mysql 8.3 will both be end of life in 2026.
DA is doing the updates on both and in RHEL the MariaDB and mysql are even disabled in yum. Next to that, in RHEL 9 it's MariaDB 3.x which is in the OS updates, not 10.6. So that doesn't sound unfounded to me at all. It's not the OS becoming EOL but the databases.
Unfortunately this question was not answered.
I hope you can and are prepared to clarify now how an OS supporting Mariadb 3.0 can to backport fixes until 2032 for 10.6 including my argument about things being disabled in yum.conf anyway.
Also I understand all of this, like I explained. But this still is no argument at all, to put such message to -our- customers in any way.
Appreciate your point on lifetime licenses. Many companies have offered them, and when unexpected events occur, like accidents or the owner’s passing, customers are usually left in a tough spot (it happened with one control panel as well, if I remember correctly). If I were the only developer at DA, that would already have resulted in a huge risk. I don’t want that for DA, nor would I want to reverse that (and have only John there). That’s why, at DA, I am glad that responsibility at this time doesn’t fall on just one person. Multiple staff is great for ensuring the panel exists, but this cannot be done on a lifetime price.
Richard G
Verified User
Exactly, which is why cPanel and Plesk are asking for support fee's to maintain the lifetime licenses.
I would appreciate if you would get into the EOL updates mentioned too.
From my viewpoint about mariadb
Even switch into OS package, Rhel8 only have mariadb 10.3, 10.5, 10.11, since we already use 10.6, it impossible to downgrade to 10.5, and only choice is upgrade into 10.11, but directadmin blocked 10.11 from using in legacy license because some integration problem, so it won't work too.
All Debian, Rhel, Ubuntu doesn't provide any mariadb 10.6. only exists 10.3, 10.5, 10.11
Except Ubuntu-22 only one OS that's provide 10.6.
Even switch into OS package, Rhel8 only have mariadb 10.3, 10.5, 10.11, since we already use 10.6, it impossible to downgrade to 10.5, and only choice is upgrade into 10.11, but directadmin blocked 10.11 from using in legacy license because some integration problem, so it won't work too.
All Debian, Rhel, Ubuntu doesn't provide any mariadb 10.6. only exists 10.3, 10.5, 10.11
Except Ubuntu-22 only one OS that's provide 10.6.