DirectAdmin v1.653 RC

I dont have a legacy license myself (somewhat lucky me) but i think this is a kinda d..k move, first we had CB separate, then they integrated it still nice!
But to make the updates with the update of DA is not nice, thats like making your life more easy fist to then take your leg....
 
I really hope DA reverts this decision of not updating required (maybe even additional) software for legacy licenses.

These licenses were sold as lifetime with no such disclaimer.
 
DirectAdmin, please keep your hands off the services that you offered for years, the core function is DirectAdmin which you already modified when you introduced the legacy license model.

You should not be removing things that where previously included, new versions are still a part of the updates. This seems like going backwards to me, and increasing the lack of trust since a lot changes where made to DirectAdmin and the Lifetime license model.

A lot of people jumped ship from cPanel which included a lot of new features in DA which of course needed a lot of work and a core code rewrite if i remember right.

People will understand that monthly/yearly recurring income is needed to keep a company running/offer new features.

But not including new versions of services you offered included for years is clearly a way to force people to use your new license model.

This is called fattening the goose, forcing people to use the new license model before selling to
Oakley Capital (WebPros)... mark my words.
 
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You know, if cPanel didn't screw their client base, DA would still look like DA from way back when I first used it......

I've been loyal to DA for years. Granted, I bought lifetime licences, and some internal licences (for client VPS')..
Now I solely use my lifetime ones.
I agree, I'm not owed anything from J&M........ however.......
 
I'm wondering if it might be a necessary decision for them to keep the company running. Because knowing DA they would like to keep things how they are and they already did for many years against all odds. What they are doing now is not da-alike so that must have some reason somewhere.

Business wise we all know that something like lifetime licenses with lifetime free updates is something which at a certain point can not be maintained anymore business wise. Every application I see nowadays which had lifetime licenses, changed to a monthley and/or yearly paid model.
Forum softwares, Malware bytes and other anti-virus software, Microsoft Office and so on, just everything.
Only a very few keep it free like Alcohol 120% or Pureftpd, small applications which do not have that much development and updates.

So maybe it's not quite fair to expect that DA will keep doing this forever, as they already did for a lot longer then others. We all knew this would be coming some day. It's just sooner than expected, also due to some statements in the recent past years.
But since they made the statement not to worry before, I'm wondering if they might be forced financially to take this turn to keep things running. As they always have kept their promises before, right? That's part is what's keeping me wondering.

Imtek said:
People will understand that monthly/yearly recurring income is needed to keep a company running/offer new features.
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Would they? Because cPanel and Plesk are also asking yearly fee's (rather expensive) for their lifetime licenses as far as they still are around. Personally I would gladly pay a yearly fee to DA for the lifetime licences, if that is what it takes to keep them alive and updating, if possible.
But that just me and my collegue thinking.

I wonder how many of you all would be prepared to pay a yearly license to keep our lifetime licenses and get updates? Because a yearly fee would still be cheaper then the monthly fee probably and we very maybe might have very small chance to convince DA this way to not make our licenses useless in 2026 when mysql support stops and see if they can come towards us in another way. One never knows.
Just some thoughts I had.
 
If my memory servers me right the yearly fee for the owned licenses were $199 to get pro pack with Support.

The monthly upgrade to standard with the discount is $15 a month which works out to be cheaper.

To be fair DA were fair with the owned licenses. Much fairer than WHMCS who took away the option for support.
 
When I'm not playing webmaster, my full time job is playing a role on a fortune 300 corporate strategy team. I mention this because I have deep experience with product pricing. Offering a lifetime license should only occur when a company is in desperate need of an influx of capital. Even under those conditions, the lifetime should be limited somehow.

The problem occurs when the business starts burning down that influx of cash. For example, when operating expenses are higher than new revenue sources and depend on the lifetime license store of money. From what I am reading, and to make matters worse, it appears DA didn't clearly spell out the limits of their lifetime license.

I can understand why people that purchased such a license are upset now. Seems to me there are a couple of options at this time, none of which will make people happy. In fact, the most likely scenario I can think of results in DA going out of business - depending on the language in their lifetime license agreement.

So enjoy that lifetime license until the very end. I'm sure CPanel will welcome you all back (sans lifetime license of course).
 
I actually don’t think there are many using non-pro pack. Also the Datacentre licenses are more of a hindrance, they don’t really bring in the money now.
 
Jayjayuk said:
I actually don’t think there are many using non-pro pack. Also the Datacentre licenses are more of a hindrance, they don’t really bring in the money now.
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I'm currently using about 90 licenses, it allows me to provide dedicated servers and vps cheaper.
 
Here we go. DA joins Cpanel and WHMCS with a different flavor of the same shenanigans. Not too big on such "tactics" so we will keep our eyes peeled for any of the alternatives such as Enhance.

sparek said:
By including updates to these stack applications with the DirectAdmin updates themselves, DirectAdmin took this a step further almost to the point to where they are declaring that the stack applications are their own. And now they are positioning themselves to where future updates to these stack applications aren't just integrated into the DirectAdmin updates, but also require a new license to do so.
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Couldn't agree more, the writing has been on the wall for a while now.

Richard G said:
I wonder how many of you all would be prepared to pay a yearly license to keep our lifetime licenses and get updates?
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We certainly would, but I don't think this will happen. As with WHMCS the endgame is to just retire the DA lifetime licenses, preferably as soon as possible. That friendly, trustworthy company where Marc and John were always ready to help is long gone.

Soon to come; exchange your licenses for a few months discount - right from Webpros playbook.
 
We have a certain number of lifetime licenses too.

In my humble opinion -

On one hand -

For legacy codebase, I do not expect new features.

I expect the legacy codebase is secured provided I am running on a supported (non-EOL) OS.
From my understanding, this is mentioned somewhere inside this topic, and let us feel comfortable at that moment.
To keep secure, I expect those open-source softwares will get updates/upgrades (probably no backport available).

---

However, on the other hand, to be fair, I understand maintaining a software needs resources, manpower, etc.

---

The very foundation script - custombuild/build - also disappeared.
Today I understand the meaning of word - "Unified" :(
 
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woktron said:
That friendly, trustworthy company where Marc and John were always ready to help is long gone.
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I refuse to believe that. Even in 4 years ago, when they stopped selling the licenses it was not done at once, but people was given the chance to buy them. And the thread referred to is for the licensing system, not any change on lifetime licences.
To be fair, they have told a couple of times that they would try to keep everything as is in the forseable future. Try.... not guarantee.
In 2019 they even offered some to get their money back for the lifetime licenses for a short time if they would not trust hem, what company does that? They have always tried to be fair.

And I'm also still frustrated about things, but does not change anything. Constructive thinking might however.

Over the years, more of us have learned Mark and John to be honest and also fair with pricing. Name me a hosting panel company with such little price changing over the years as DA. But with at least a lot of development changing the last years at least.

ccto said:
However, on the other hand, to be fair, I understand maintaining a software needs resources, manpower, etc.
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Exactly. And lets do some math. Suppose one gets his lifetime licence as one of the last moments in 2019. So Mariadb 10.6 goes end of life in 2026. So they will work until 2026 before you see EOL getting the upper hand.
That is 7 years, at $29 a month = 348 a year x 7 years = 2436 - buyprice 299 = 2.137 dollar profit.
Even if the license would be used 1 year it's still a 48 dollar profit we as license holders made, compare that to others.
And most of us have these licenses wayyyyy longer.

woktron said:
We certainly would, but I don't think this will happen.
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Why don't you think that? As said, Mark and John have always been listening to reason. If their hands are forced, maybe then can't do anything else. But if we only complaint without giving them idea's on maybe how to get on with the licenses.

I suggest doing like I did, I also don't like the situation, but I suggested the idea of paying for the support. Not for the free software updates, but because what @ccto said. Resources, manpower, and integration of the software with the panel itself, like roundcube and phpmyadmin and so on.
I don't know if they are into the idea/suggestion, but never tried is lost anyway. If other license holders have good idea's on how to proceed or are prepared to pay a yearlee fee and maybe have an idea about how high this fee should be, send them a mail or ticket.
Bring them ideas, help them think about this or change their mind. They are still the same Mark and John as before, I'm sure of that.
If possible, they will listen to reason and good idea's or explain us why things are or are not possible.
 
@BillyS modsecurity OWASP ruleset versions are bumped, and also updated to be downloaded directly from github instead of our mirror server.
 
There would be absolutely zero confusion if the DA team would have made it explicitly clear which service(s) will continue to be supported for legacy licenses. And if specific service(s) will not be supported, please provide a timeline to phase out that support for those service(s). This allows current license holders to plan accordingly. Please and thank you.
 
Richard G said:
I suggest doing like I did, I also don't like the situation, but I suggested the idea of paying for the support.
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Oh, I agree with that, that is why I seconded your suggestion. I just don't see it as a realistic option, but we will see. :)

Richard G said:
Over the years, more of us have learned Mark and John to be honest and also fair with pricing.
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I agree with that too, but when was the last time you have seen Mark respond to a query on the forum? Clearly some organizational changes have been made and DA as a company today has more of a corporate vibe to it, they are less approachable if you will.

Richard G said:
Not for the free software updates, but because what @ccto said. Resources, manpower, and integration of the software with the panel itself, like roundcube and phpmyadmin and so on.
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Sure, however as Sparek mentioned DA have included the LAMP stack applications within the core DA update system itself. They certainly did not have to do this, but they did. Having made this change they can now force people to upgrade by disallowing access to third party applications, which is what we are seeing now. Not having access to new components within DA is perfecly acceptable, but this move is totally arbitrary and I find it rather distasteful, frankly.

I also feel that we've exchanged a super stable, the most bug free software you could humanly find, for a rapid development cycle with lots of bugs left, right and center. Rapid firing new and fairly untested releases is not something enterprise users are too fond of. Slow, steady and well tested is what most of us want.

Richard G said:
Exactly. And lets do some math.
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I find that irrelevant. Lifetime licenses were purchased with the understanding that updates were included. Are lifetime licenses with updates at DA's pricepoint viable? Probably not, unless you obtain lots and lots of growth month-to-month. However, DA did enter a contract after all when they sold their product. In any case, we'd be happy to compromise and pay a maintenance fee. But, compromises do work both ways.
 
woktron said:
DA have included the LAMP stack applications within the core DA update system itself. They certainly did not have to do this, but they did. Having made this change they can now force people to upgrade by disallowing access to third party applications, which is what we are seeing now.
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You nailed it my friend, we didnt see it coming
woktron said:
we've exchanged a super stable, the most bug free software you could humanly find, for a rapid development cycle with lots of bugs left, right and center.
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Agree, lot of hotfixes after releasing each version
 
woktron said:
they are less approachable if you will.
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No they are not, at least I didn't have issues contacting them when it was really necessary. But I never disturb them little things.
Also on the forum I have seen them around, not as Mark or John but as Directadmin Support and Directadmin Sales.
They are still there, still owning DA and working, also in the ticketing system, but lead developper now is @fln and you see him a lot here on the forums which is a good thing.

As for the change from very stable to something a bit less stable, I have to agree with that, too often hotfixes after releasing a version. However, take in account that a lot of new features were added too. The more things present, the more things can go wrong. But this indeed needs improvement.

woktron said:
In any case, we'd be happy to compromise and pay a maintenance fee. But, compromises do work both ways.
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That's good to hear. We are having a constructive conversation and it might go that way, but there are all kinds of hooks and things to think of so at some point some decision will be made, but it might trying to get the best decision out of bad options. I mean, if we would have to start paying, it would be a bad decision, but if the other choice would be to keep it like now and render our licenses useless in 2026 that is even worse.

Active8 said:
You nailed it my friend, we didnt see it coming
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Exactly! And this point I've repeatedly made clear to them, that the fact that we didn't see it coming and had a feeling of safety due to some statements, this sudden totally unexpected news got us all into attack mode.
And I certainly also made clear that whatever will be choosen now, must be done with a very clear statement. So if they are not sure they can maintain any plan they come with, they must state so with it, so we know what is coming or can be coming.
Clarity is of the upmost importance!
 
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