What is the future for Legacy DirectAdmin License holders?

[JosKlever]

So if I understand correctly, DA needs code adjustments for every new release of database software to handle that version and I assume that's a bigger change than just adding a line with the new version number. So installing the new version of MariaDB/MySQL would actually break DA.
In that case the old DA will indeed be end of life, as it's not about installing the MariaDB/MySQL updates but about them breaking old DA.

That would leave us to the options I mentioned where DA needs some money and/or hands that would be able to make these changes and extend the lifetime of old DA. But I don't know if that would be possible for external developers to help. Do you see any possibilities in that direction? If you tell what would be needed, the LLH user base can consider if that would be interesting enough to investigate.

Example: to implement support for MariaDB 10.11 it would take X hours of work resulting in a certain amount of money that would need to be raised by crowdfunding, sponsors or some license migration deal. The community can come up with ideas. And if they can't raise that money, it will be over.

Of course it would also be good to determine which components will fail next in the foreseeable future to see the bigger picture.

 

[floyd]

It only costs you one time to integrate the next version of MariaDB and Mysql. Why should we have to continue pay monthly for that? Why can't we just pay a one time update fee to get the next version of those 2?

 

[johannes]

All dual version codebase problems came up with the integration from the ProPack, which a lot of us dont need. Take it out, make it plugin again as it was before, and continue with only one DA version/codebase.
Or do as JosKlever mentioned.
Or make the legacy code opensource.

 

[toml]

Perhaps the best way to signal our dissatisfaction would be for all the affected lifetime licensees, to stop offering help on this forum. I think that would/could hurt DA's support system. They have been very lucky that a lot of us offered free help to DA's customers over the years (myself for at least 20 years). Perhaps we need to leverage that, and only help when/if our DA versions cat at least get an up to date RDBMS, or not fail if we choose to update our RDBMS. If we force DA to spend more time doing their own support then they might see the value those of us with lifetime licenses gave back to DA.

 

[Richard G]

The development of DA Legacy is limited because it is not sustainable.

So this I don't understand. If extra work was required, then yes I would understand, but as to your own statement, there is no extra work.

We distribute all the DA software in a single software package. It contains the code for both legacy and modern DA.

So it's developped for modern anyway, so no extra work to give it to legacy too. Or am I misunderstanding something here?
You don't have to do everything new, so it's no new development, it can be seen as addition development.

But it's not a new feature as to industry standards. Software upgrades can however contain new features, but is not a new feature on itself.
So in fact this should be part of the upgrade part of the license agreement.

A one time update fee for upgrades is also not a bad idea.

Edit: it's not that we do not want to think with DA, but we don't need a moder license and 15/month is too much for lot of us, even with pause option. So upgrade fee's would be nice.
Or keeping legacy licences as is, but with the software upgrades as always have been, but then for example 5/month payment per year and for internal licenses 3/month payment per year for licenses in use.

 

[LawsHosting]

Reading this thread hurts my head......

Maintaining 2 codebases must take up resources anyway.. No?

So the ProPack was the nail in the coffin for LLH once it was included in the new codebase...

And, correct me if I'm wrong, LLHs could purchase the ProPack when it was separate, right? I assume a lot never bought it due to a "do not care for x feature" attitude (LLHs nor normal paying licensees)? So to counter this, some smart Alec decided to put MySQL & MariaDB in the ProPack, forcing LLHs to upgrade to the "ProPack" codebase.

My brain hurts.....

 

[woktron]

It seems like anything above 0 is considered too high .

There is a time and place for jokes. This I find inappropriate. You are well aware most of us are willing to accept a reasonable compromise.

We are open to having custom agreements - if one is willing to convert all of the legacy licenses to modern licenses in one go. But for this please contact the sales directly over email. It really depends on how many licenses you have.

Uhm, no that is not how the world works. It would be your job to try and convert those licenses. So, you would need to contact those users (the same users who still have not yet been officially informed of any of this). As it stands you are signalling that you just don't care.

We distribute all the DA software in a single software package. It contains the code for both legacy and modern DA. This allows us to have a very easy license upgrade (without reinstalling software).

If there is a unified codebase it would not be more work at all to keep the legacy packages up to date.

If there is no unified codebase (which your quote does suggest), i'm wondering why on earth not? It would be way easier to set flags for the components that legacy users are not allowed to have access to. This is more a matter of willingness than anything else.

In any case, when the license was originally purchased there was no version limitation included in the licensing agreement. So, moving MariaDB and MySQL into the pro-pack is completely arbitrary, no matter how you try (desperately) to spin it.

Efforts in tampering with legacy DA to unlock new features falls under the same category as buying a cheaper graphics card and cracking the microcode to unlock all hardware capabilities. It is piracy and it is illegal.

Tampering with DA may be illegal, but in most jurisdictions you are certainly free to hack YOUR OWN graphics card. It is when you distribute such a hack in public which could make it illegal.

You may also want to consider that the moves DA are making are legally questionable as well and there will be some who feel that "you" are tampering with their livelyhoods without any care given. That certainly won't help in the sympathy department. So, I can only assume that a growing number of people will try and get what they have paid for - one way or the other. Not something I necessarily approve of, mind you.

All dual version codebase problems came up with the integration from the ProPack, which a lot of us dont need. Take it out, make it plugin again as it was before, and continue with only one DA version/codebase.

That is not happening unfortunately. Pro pack is designed to "justify" the monthly subscription fees and hand in hand with this you will always see feature creep, where all kinds of useless stuff is added that the average user will never ever touch.

 

[ericc]

Seems like DA is getting proficiency in genocide of LLH - on every server running DA, on the login page, new bar appeared, saying "This server is running DirectAdmin legacy codebase, which receives limited development."

Did anyone asked DA for refunds or try to negotiate a price for current non-legacy licenses directly, which was advised by them, but which is, in my opinion, humiliating to start with?

 

[Strator]

There seems to be some confusion in this thread.

1. I read a lot about "promises" DA supposedly made, but these aren't promises: Like others have pointed out, DA has legal obligations towards legacy license holders. Legal obligations are obligations that can be claimed in court, and in a less friendly environment, the entity not living up to their legal obligations would simply be subject to a class action lawsuit.

2. Fortunately, this IS a friendly environment. There's a lot of understanding for DA in this thread, what works best for them, what is sustainable for them and how their concerns for the future can be met. Nice.

3. Understanding and friendliness cannot remain a one-way road, however, and there are plenty of cues in this thread suggesting that DA is simply not willing to return the understanding and mirror the generosity demonstrated by many in this thread, who are offering to compromise on their legal rights.

There is fln pointing out that tampering with legacy DA is illegal, while turning a blind eye to the fact that DA breaking their commercial obligations is the much bigger offense (and came first).

Floyd and others have opened a door to compromise by picking up on the fact that DA have cited one-time expenses as the main issue at stake. Yet, DA seems to be insisting to push everyone into subscription models, which suggests that this has been the main objective all along (so I guess all the empathy in this thread is wasted?).

Woktron has rightly pointed out that it would not only be DA's job to try and convert the legacy licenses, but that there's also an obligation to officially inform (!) affected license holders of what's going on.

Which brings me to the reason I came across this thread: I'm currently trying to migrate my DA to a new server. I'm on a very tight schedule, as my flat is uninhabitable due to water damage - I was finally able to secure stable internet for the next ten days, after which I'll be traveling until late October. New VPS has been commissioned, and I routinely contacted support for a temporary license key. But instead I've been given a virtual shrug that it's not possible - according to the updated docs, I somehow need to procure a second legacy license to even have the privilege to move to a different server (which effectively means that my privilege to move to a different server has been revoked without notice - seriously?!). And gee, what a convenient way to receive the memo!

It's already been mentioned that "you" are tampering with people's livelyhoods without any care given, but in fact you're screwing with a lot more. There is so much ignorance and irresponsibility dripping from this situation that I'd have to dig quite deep in my repertoire of curse words to express how I feel about it. Instead, I'm citing woktron once more: "You are signalling that you just don't care." Right - biggest understatement of the century. But in return, you are expecting *us* to compromise. Really?! Why on earth should we - or why should anyone who is treated this way??

 

[Richard G]

I somehow need to procure a second legacy license to even have the privilege to move to a different server

No you don't. It's a bit harder but you can use your current license key. Just make all required backups first.
Then configure your new server (correct hostname and updates etc.) and when ready to install DA, use your current license key.
Install Directadmin and the license will automatically be transferred to the new server. This can cause that you can not access the old server via the GUI anymore, but all systems will keep running for some time.

Transfer your backups (ftp or rsync or whatever) to your new server, restore them on the new server, make required ip changes for nameservers etc. and then your done.

As for the rest of your text, you made a good assassment of what seems to be going on. Just replied because I wanted to help you transfer your server c.q. inform you how it's done nowadays on legacy license.

 

[dlong500]

I'm only coming across this thread now as I've mostly gotten out of the hosting business except for a small number of clients for which I do other things as well. I actually bought an *extra* lifetime license a long time ago just to make server migrations easier. I knew it was a bad sign several years ago when they introduced the "Pro Pack" and complained about a bait and switch even back then. But now they are going to stop supporting very basic updates to database software for anyone who had the "audacity" to purchase a lifetime license. As if we should have known this day would come because we purchased a perpetual license for an advertised product.

This is not the company that I once respected. Shame on you. For my simple config I don't need to put up with shenanigans like this and I'll be moving to some other offering whenever I need to upgrade. I pretty much called it for what it was three years ago when I knew the "Pro Pack" would turn into their active development and the existing licensing would mostly be abandoned (and of course didn't get any reply from them back then). I just feel sorry for the folks who have invested a ton of time, energy, and infrastructure in this software and gave more tech support in the forums for free than DirectAdmin's own staff ever did.

 

[DennisNL]

I actually bought an *extra* lifetime license a long time ago just to make server migrations easier.

I actually did the same thing years ago, but this was even before the propack or subscription introduction.
Paying now both for both licenses monthly, no.

Currently i'm using both since i'm moving to a new server, but this was before i even had the knowledge of what was going on here... So my migration is stopped, i now have a second server with no websites or accounts but only a DA installation running in the cloud. Don't know yet how to proceed.

 

[Rolf B]

I'm currently trying to migrate my DA to a new server. I'm on a very tight schedule

you can have a licence from me, we have enough old ones we don't need, just send me a PM

 

[Strator]

you can have a licence from me, we have enough old ones we don't need, just send me a PM

PM sent.

 

[mikevipe]

There seems to be some confusion in this thread.

1. I read a lot about "promises" DA supposedly made, but these aren't promises: Like others have pointed out, DA has legal obligations towards legacy license holders. Legal obligations are obligations that can be claimed in court, and in a less friendly environment, the entity not living up to their legal obligations would simply be subject to a class action lawsuit.

2. Fortunately, this IS a friendly environment. There's a lot of understanding for DA in this thread, what works best for them, what is sustainable for them and how their concerns for the future can be met. Nice.

3. Understanding and friendliness cannot remain a one-way road, however, and there are plenty of cues in this thread suggesting that DA is simply not willing to return the understanding and mirror the generosity demonstrated by many in this thread, who are offering to compromise on their legal rights.

There is fln pointing out that tampering with legacy DA is illegal, while turning a blind eye to the fact that DA breaking their commercial obligations is the much bigger offense (and came first).

Floyd and others have opened a door to compromise by picking up on the fact that DA have cited one-time expenses as the main issue at stake. Yet, DA seems to be insisting to push everyone into subscription models, which suggests that this has been the main objective all along (so I guess all the empathy in this thread is wasted?).

Woktron has rightly pointed out that it would not only be DA's job to try and convert the legacy licenses, but that there's also an obligation to officially inform (!) affected license holders of what's going on.

Which brings me to the reason I came across this thread: I'm currently trying to migrate my DA to a new server. I'm on a very tight schedule, as my flat is uninhabitable due to water damage - I was finally able to secure stable internet for the next ten days, after which I'll be traveling until late October. New VPS has been commissioned, and I routinely contacted support for a temporary license key. But instead I've been given a virtual shrug that it's not possible - according to the updated docs, I somehow need to procure a second legacy license to even have the privilege to move to a different server (which effectively means that my privilege to move to a different server has been revoked without notice - seriously?!). And gee, what a convenient way to receive the memo!

It's already been mentioned that "you" are tampering with people's livelyhoods without any care given, but in fact you're screwing with a lot more. There is so much ignorance and irresponsibility dripping from this situation that I'd have to dig quite deep in my repertoire of curse words to express how I feel about it. Instead, I'm citing woktron once more: "You are signalling that you just don't care." Right - biggest understatement of the century. But in return, you are expecting *us* to compromise. Really?! Why on earth should we - or why should anyone who is treated this way??

Perhaps your option should be seriously considered.

I myself have several lifetime licenses. I purchased them over 15 years ago when DA was not as far along as it is today. I supported them when they were smaller and needed it and now that they are larger I feel they have turned their backs on us.

Like many other companies, they have developed the idea that a lifetime license can be twisted and distorted into an outdated antiquated product to force users to upgrade.

I would have no problem paying a small 'support' fee for support, but I do expect to a unlimited lifetime license to in fact be unlimited and include the same perks as the highest current package. Charging double what I paid for a lifetime license each year is just unacceptable. I am paying the same "lifetime" license fee now each and every year to remain in business? This is crazy...

By removing the pro-pack, they are now strong arming customers into forfeiting their lifetime license for a twisted discounted license with unacceptable terms.

My concern is the fine print "An active billing subscription must be maintained to keep the license active. If the license expires, it can not be activated again." So now we must upgrade our "lifetime" license and we are unable to pause and come back like we could previously. We purchased DA as a cPanel alternative back in 2008 but at that time it just was not able to compete with the features and usability cPanel offered, so the licenses were used on and off over the years to offer to specific customers. Now it appears this is no longer an option. If a customer leaves your "lifetime" turned discounted monthly license goes to the wind and you are only left with the option to purchase a brand new full price license.

This right here just seems sleazy and unprofessional. A move backed by corporate greed and nothing else. Using twisted terms with fine print to try to swindle your longest and most likely loyal customers out of their licenses is just sad.

 

[Strator]

Perhaps your option should be seriously considered.

Tbh I am surprised that nobody has considered it. There's still a far stretch between considering and actually doing it, but of course, if you assure the other side early on that none of their actions will have consequences, it leaves you with very little to negotiate about.

 

[Richard G]

Tbh I am surprised that nobody has considered it.

Considered what exactly? I don't really seeing anything not considered or thought or mentioned before, or I must be missing something.

 

[netswitch]

I guess he implied "a class action lawsuit".

 

[Richard G]

A lawsuit was also mentioned before in the thread by people, so was also considered. But I think there is very very little chance to win such thing.

 

[floyd]

A lawsuit was also mentioned before in the thread by people, so was also considered. But I think there is very very little chance to win such thing.

I think it is a very good chance to win but I don't have the money and time to pursue it.