What is the future for Legacy DirectAdmin License holders?

[netswitch]

Like support for MySQL 8.4 or MariaDB 11.

Putting that in PRO PACK is a clever way of trying to get away with it
But frankly, one cannot honestly say that when "unlimited updates and upgrades" were promised, it had a limitation on the MySql version number. ( What about PHP 9 ? Will it also be a "Modern Licences(PRO PACK)" feature ?

"Modern Licences(PRO PACK)" aka DirectAdmin v2 ? hey wait a minute, v2 is an upgrade and free upgrade were promised

There are also more public options. Any legacy license can be exchanged to:

• Standard license for 15/month
• Lite license for 8/month
• Personal Plus license for 3/month

One step in the right direction certainly, I personally didn't catch that there was a conversion path to Lite and Personal Plus too.
But I don't know what marketing research led to the pricing model, what input you asked from existing customers before setting the new price, but from the activity on this thread we regularly see new poeple, sometimes big LLH accounts only discovering the issue and being somewhat frustrated.

You also wrote on the first exchanges "We are certainly open to suggestions on solutions. Feel free to post them publicly!"
So we did but with only little feedback.
Sales can also reach out to LLH accounts with proposals but then why not post them publicly ?

The most frequent feedback on this thread :
-The way this situation is handled is not good (bad communication, feelings of "backstabbing" and lack of consideration)
-29$/ month is a lot, 15$ still is.
-There is a need to be able to pause the subscription

My proposal : Bring back the "Code 5" licence, 5$/month for unlimited accounts and activate them for all cutomers that hold a lifetime licence and this will meet most requests :
-a possibility to resign and order a new one (aka pause)
-a (more) reasonable price
-this will stimulate the providers to keep pushing directadmin as they would have a competitive proposal.
On the other side, insist that this is a licence without support, create a paid ticket system, insist that these are not for resale and that ip changes are limited.

5$ is not much but is a lot for a hobbyist, is also a lot for a company that has 100+ licences, is much more than zero and also has a far better conversion probablility.

 

[JosKlever]

@fln I've been reading along this discussion since it started even though I'm not a LLH user and only have 1 license $29 for my dedicated server. I did use it for free for years, because my server supplier had an LLH. I wanted more, so now I'm paying for it. That's fine for me.

However all this time I keep the same question in my head that seems to be the elephant in the room...

All the arguments for saying that new database software versions can't be in legacy mode anymore seem to have a technical reason. Can you explain what that reason is?

Without that, people keep thinking it's only to disrespect the old user base. I hope for all parties that this can clear up the fog so you can move forward in finding a solution.

Thanks!

 

[Richard G]

Can you explain what that reason is?

He already did before. It's not that it's impossible. But it takes some work integrating in Directadmin. And integrating in Legacy code costs seperate work.
Work=time and time=money and they don't want to do that anymore for legacy licences, or only very slightly. As costs for development and features are getting to high and legacy does not bring in any money because LLH was one time payment (which is was more expensive).

 

[JosKlever]

@Richard G I know that it was said that it needs work to integrate it, but every complaint in this thread says it should be simple to do and is only blocked on purpose. As long as these opinions get the most attention it's clearly not only me who still has questions.

There are people in this thread who claim they made it work (for them), so maybe there's a possibility to ask them to help develop a fix. Another idea would be some crowdfunding to fund this integration. I have no idea how big the issues are (that's why I asked). I think everyone can agree, that this thread has become way too long without any progress.

 

[Richard G]

it should be simple to do and is only blocked on purpose.

It's only blocked for Directadmin to prevent issues which also already occured by somebody who installed in manually before the block was present.
Indeed there are people -saying- that integration is easy. But saying and doing are 2 different things.
You still can install MariaDB 10.11, just not via custombuild.

If it was so easy to do, why did nobody create a script then, to just use DA 1.643 and install 10.11 there and update php and stuff so DA 1.643 can be used with all things up to date?

Ofcourse this thread has become way to long, but both sides have the feet into the sand and there is no movement. Well... today was a slight movement of DA probably.
And commercial company's don't want to be and can't be dependable on 3rd party or volunteer helpers.
I know DA was a bit in the past, but it's just not possible anymore.

 

[JosKlever]

How much I appreciate your contribution in this thread to answer questions of other users, I was asking DA hoping that some thing could get explained in more detail. Now you are answering for them again without extra details. This adds some more comments to the discussion without getting a step further.

That's why I hope @fln will answer my question as well to get out of this vicious circle. You and others want answers from DA, so give them a chance to answer.

 

[Richard G]

I was asking DA

If you have followed this thread, you know it was already explained detailed enough, they also already mentioned integration. What other detail you need? And you also know how "often" they reply. I don't know which extra details you are expecting because there are none which are not already explained.
So your question and even the answer will get the discussion unfortunately not any step further.

Well hopefully he will answer your quesion, he probably won't because he already did, but if he does, you will see that it makes no difference at all to which is explained previously or to getting any step further.

 

[fln]

All the arguments for saying that new database software versions can't be in legacy mode anymore seem to have a technical reason. Can you explain what that reason is?

I am not sure I understand the question. There are no limitations to what software can do. If modern DA were released for all license types, then everything would work for any license holder. If some new "license-less" DA were created and released, it would work even if you do not have a license.

We distribute all the DA software in a single software package. It contains the code for both legacy and modern DA. This allows us to have a very easy license upgrade (without reinstalling software).

Efforts in tampering with legacy DA to unlock new features falls under the same category as buying a cheaper graphics card and cracking the microcode to unlock all hardware capabilities. It is piracy and it is illegal.

The whole idea of licensing is to allow people to pay less and get the product with a limited feature set.

 

[Richard G]

Efforts in tampering with legacy DA to unlock new features

Except neither Mysql or MariaDB upgrades are new features, they are just upgrades as they always have been. New features new things which not have been before, like Letsencrypt, DBMS, email tracking and these kind of things.
And it's in the contrary what we are told before that it was because the integration costed extra time (and thus money).

 

[JosKlever]

@fln I totally understand that. The discussion is that the legacy version still receives some updates, but not those for MariaDB and MySQL. Is that gap too big regarding compatibility compared to the current versions that would cost too much work to keep it running or is it a business decision not to include it to get rid of the legacy licenses?

I can't remember that I've seen a clear answer that the legacy version will just break and it can't be easily fixed without rewriting that legacy codebase. In that case it would indeed mean that that version is end of life and the discussion would be over. But if it's a business decision to not include the new database versions I would agree with the LLH users, because you would deliberately make those licenses unusable by breaking the "lifetime" promise.

I also agree that if licenses were used for the wrong purpose (the base of this whole change) they should be disabled. That's a violation by the users. But now a lot of LLH users are also hit by this change, while the are in fact (part of) the foundation of DA and they are volunteers in the community doing support and promotion for free. That value should be considered as well.

 

[floyd]

If there is no pause option for licenses then it s no-go. I am not going to pay even $1 for a license that I am not currently using. Even Hulu allows me to pause my subscription when I am not currently using it. I allow pausing on VPSs when customers don't want to use it for a few months. When its unpaused the VPS is exactly how they left it. AWS can also be based on usage. Why should we pay for a license that is not currently in use?

 

[beansbaxter]

There are no limitations to what software can do. If modern DA were released for all license types, then everything would work for any license holder.

Then why did DA create this self-imposed limitation for DA software?

If there are truly no limitations to what software can do, it would have been easy and straightforward to make everything work for all license holders. But instead, DA chose to restrict our software upgrade path, which is not what was told to us in the beginning.

That's not fair to us.

We distribute all the DA software in a single software package. It contains the code for both legacy and modern DA.

Well, apparently it's a single software package with your added feature of integrated limitations.

Again, that's not fair to us.

The whole idea of licensing is to allow people to pay less and get the product with a limited feature set.

If you're referring to the new DA licensing model, I agree it works for Monthly holders, but it unfairly limits Lifetime holders by reducing our promised feature set. And that's not fair to us.

If you're referring to the old DA licensing model, I also agree. We were promised lifetime upgrades and updates without further price increases, while Monthly holders received additional features (i.e. technical support, Pro Pack, etc.).

And what is more messed up about this entire situation is the announcement to change the DA licensing model. When the announcement was made, it was very easy to separate the logic between Monthly and Lifetime holders, as it was clearly stated:

Monthly licenses unaffected.

And DA allowed us to continue buying Lifetime licenses for another 2 months:

For current accounts, lifetime internal licenses vanish on Sep 1 but they can keep ordering normally until then (within throttling limitations)

And DA further established nothing would change for Lifetime licenses:

Unlimited updates is something we promised

I really hope that our intent is viewed as productive and respectful to our customer base.

I certainly hope anything above doesn't make our valued costumers feel like they have been betrayed or mislead in any way.

Most importantly, we are not taking away anyone's lifetime license, and we are not going to start charging for updates. A promise is a promise.

And now:

• We are not receiving "unlimited updates" as promised.
• We do not feel the intent is "respectful" to your customers.
• We do not feel like your "valued customers" and do feel "betrayed" and "mislead" completely.
• And "most importantly" is what happened when a "promise is a promise."

This is all so sad and frustrating. And at the end of the day, it's not fair to us Lifetime holders

And then DA has the audacity to say this:

it is illegal

I completely agree. And that is why we just want what was promised to us... nothing more, nothing less.

We don't need Pro Pack. We don't need Technical Support. We don't need the same logic that is being applied to Monthly users.

We just want DA to honor the agreement and intent they promised:

• Automatic upgrades / updates
• Protection against price increases

Those two items were quoted from the DA website pricing page for Lifetime licenses:

 

[netswitch]

The problem is that the logic at DA until now seems to be "we will make more money if we keep the current pricing and wait until legacy customers are done complaining" instead of "Let's adapt to a pricing model that will convert most legacy licence holders to recurring and keep everybody happy".

The rest is fugaza, Directadmin somehow shot themselfes in the foot with "one time fee" licences but it also helped them to thrive at some point.
Legacy codebase, propack codebase, that is just a smoke screen, the commitment from DA was updates and upgrades, I will not quote the sceenshot from the previous post but it is adamant. Legacy codebase is just a trick to push LLH to recurring, it actually costs DA dev time.

Now, many legacy customers are willing to pay something to support the company, but the offer on the table is simply not attractive enough.

Efforts in tampering with legacy DA to unlock new features falls under the same category as buying a cheaper graphics card and cracking the microcode to unlock all hardware capabilities. It is piracy and it is illegal

Breaking a commecial promiseis also illegal...

When the change was announced it was very clearly stated that "nothing would change" and resellers were even given the opportunity to buy "one last chunk of one time licences" proportional to their previous volume.

[Also (but this is a completely unrelated disucssion) from a provider perspective, it is VERY difficult to sell the licences at the price tag they are now and we see customers choosing Cpanel or Plesk when it used to be a no brainer for them to go DirectAdmin even if they had never eard of it.]

 

[fln]

Legacy license owners continue to receive updates for the DirectAdmin Legacy product. However, legacy licenses are not eligible for the new stuff we add for modern DirectAdmin. If you do not need modern DirectAdmin, please continue using legacy licenses.

If you do not like Legacy DirectAdmin feature-wise, you can choose to use a different product. A different product could be modern DirectAdmin or other control panels from other providers. If modern DA is chosen, we offer huge discounts of ~50% for all license types.

 

[JosKlever]

Legacy license owners continue to receive updates for the DirectAdmin Legacy product. However, legacy licenses are not eligible for the new stuff we add for modern DirectAdmin.

@fln And this is exactly the reason of my question yesterday. Most of your users don't understand why an update of MariaDB or MySQL is seen as new stuff instead of as updates.

 

[netswitch]

Legacy license owners continue to receive updates for the DirectAdmin Legacy product. However, legacy licenses are not eligible for the new stuff we add for modern DirectAdmin. If you do not need modern DirectAdmin, please continue using legacy licenses.

"Modern DirectAdmin" being "DirectAdmin v2" so poeple should be entitled to free updates and upgrades..
I don't know if there is still a commercial / marketing guy at DirectAdmin but making small money is better than making no money.

@fln And this is exactly the reason of my question yesterday. Most of your users don't understand why an update of MariaDB or MySQL is seen as new stuff instead of as updates.

There is none, it even creates them extra work. The only reason of this is to have a lever to push LLH towards "Modern DirectAdmin"

 

[beansbaxter]

Legacy license owners continue to receive updates for the DirectAdmin Legacy product.

This is factually not true.

DA has always included MySQL and MariaDB. And now we are not receiving these promised updates.

 

[fln]

DA Legacy receives limited development. The development of DA Legacy is limited because it is not sustainable. It still has some updates, and legacy license owners receive all the updates we make for the DA legacy. And they will continue receiving the updates. However, as a product with limited development, it is less attractive now. I do agree it was more attractive, and it used to get more stuff for free some time ago.

 

[JosKlever]

@fln And again no answer to the question why MariaDB and MySQL updates are seen as "new stuff" instead of updates.

 

[fln]

Any new integration or change of the existing integration to be compatible with new software requires integration work to be done. If the work is not done, then the software does not have a feature or does not support new integration. It was decided that integrations with the latest DB management system versions will not be done for legacy DA.