Important: Upgrade your DirectAdmin to ensure compatibility with our new licensing system

[woktron]

So we still stick with Enhanced for the time being as admins. Maybe sometime later this year or next year.

I know the feeling very well. I think Evolution is great for endusers, but for us admins it somehow just doesn't really gel. We keep going back and forth between Enhanced and Evolution for now, which is less than ideal.

However, I do like lots of the features that were build now a bit quicker since so many former cP customers came over.

I do too, however DA should be careful not to introduce too many features too fast, as it also introduces bugs. Bugs were relatively rare for DA in the past. Issues do seem to crop up now more often.

Which is also partly caused because other software company's are using another understanding of lifetime (you can use this specific version forever until it's declared end of life, or use specific version forever but can't upgrade anymore) instead of DA using the "you can use DA for life, no matter which version, but you need to upgrade, we don't support EOL OS" which is a different way of looking at things.

I totally agree. I can only commend DA for how they have treated lifetime license holders. I do think that the thought behind this is that if specific versions can no longer be upgraded then lots of people would potentially be running an insecure setup, which is less than ideal ofcourse.

 

[DirectAdmin Sales]

We'd be glad to revise the definition of lifetime licenses, if this is what the majority wants.

Would everyone be okay with no more version updates, in return for guaranteed licensing functionality (even if you ignore our EOL policy)?

 

[Active8]

Would everyone be okay with no more version updates, in return for guaranteed licensing functionality

Not me, people must update their software for security and enhancements

 

[BillyS]

Would everyone be okay with no more version updates, in return for guaranteed licensing functionality

I might be misinterpreting this message, but this makes sense to me. For some licenses, at some point in time you freeze everything. No more updates to an EOL operating system and no more updates to DA. This way someone that ignore EOL and runs a potentially insecure server will have a version of DA that is also EOL but still works (and may also be insecure).

As would be the case with an EOL operating system, if something breaks the owner needs to fix it or hire someone. Same with DA.

 

[cjd]

I'm fine with how it is now, would prefer if it was kept up to date.

I do my best to keep all my systems up to date, for the OS version they are running, for many OS updates I have automatic configured and check them all manually at least weekly (critical updates are patched immediately). And upgrade OS before EOL (some customers can be a bit frustrating about this).

As long as the backup function is functional on an expired system (have had to take maintainer ship of installs that were left past EOL and partially broken).

I find if things don't 'break' in some way, customers will just let things go (and never do updates) till it's way too late or they have been compromised by a vulnerability. Have seen too many systems that were just left on auto pilot, with no one monitoring/maintaining them.

** This is just all my opinion on how I prefer to run the systems that I'm responsible for.

 

[woktron]

We'd be glad to revise the definition of lifetime licenses, if this is what the majority wants.

Would everyone be okay with no more version updates, in return for guaranteed licensing functionality (even if you ignore our EOL policy)?

Please don't . As it is now I think that you got it just right

 

[Richard G]

Would everyone be okay with no more version updates, in return for guaranteed licensing functionality (even if you ignore our EOL policy)?

No certainly not. I am just happy with the way DA is looking at lifetime licenses, and it's good to keep things up to date.
I think most of us are happy with the current situation.

 

[DirectAdmin Sales]

Thanks for the feedback. This thread applies to all licenses types, so there is something telling about how often "lifetime" is mentioned. It seems like this license group prefers backwards rather than forwards functionality -- or maybe they are the minority, and just really vocal about it.

I might be misinterpreting this message, but this makes sense to me. For some licenses, at some point in time you freeze everything.

Next year will be the 20-year anniversary of the lifetime product so it might be a good time to shift it to licensing updates only. Due to the outrage in this thread we even introduced a legacy-codebase license flag to make this task easier.

Here's the real question: Is 20 years of constant development and over 200 builds (versions) a good life-span for a software product? Especially a one-time fee license that has been discontinued and hasn't been sold for years now.

One thing that everyone agreed on is static functionality even after active development (product lifetime) ends. Many people here pointed out things like Windows XP or even old DOS games. They understand such software is not developed any more, but they still expect it to install/run "forever."

Thoughts? Realistic expectations? Maybe a new thread about this, since the old licensing system has been gone a while now and we are having less people join this thread in a panic.

 

[jca]

I think people need to keep software updated and EOL is not really an excuse. Usually that same people will complain if their server is compromised and blame DA for the issue, which results in bad publicity and ends up hurting everybody when clients asks if the same can happen to them as it was a server running DA.

 

[Richard G]

to shift it to licensing updates only. Due to the outrage in this thread we even introduced a legacy-codebase license flag to make this task easier.

What do you mean by that? No normal updates anymore like apache and php and stuff? So the majority will get bullied because of the minority vocal customers running old EOL stuff? That wouldn't really be fair right?

Especially a one-time fee license that has been discontinued and hasn't been sold for years now.

Well... that's only 3 years in september. Last ones were sold in 2019 as far as I remember. So some only have those licenses only for like 3-5 years.

I don't mind the new licensing system at all, and people should keep stuff updated and use EOL on their own risk. So no guaranteed support for EOL stuff.

However it would be nice if the lifetime licenses still would be updated like any other license. This was the way lifetime was explained and still valid. However I do agree that also those using these licenses (like we are) do have to apply to running non-EOL and supported OS'ses like the current licenses.

 

[BillyS]

I thought the idea was this, which is what I think makes sense. I'll use a real example.

Centos 7 goes EOL on June 30, 2024. At that point the server owner has a DA license. That DA version works on that server on that day (June 30, 2024). The owner now has a choice. They can update to a non-EOL operating system or they can keep running Centos 7.9 with the version of DA that works on June 30, 2024.

If they choose to keep running the EOL Centos 7.9, DA keeps introducing new functionality (for the non-EOL operating systems) but this server no longer receives DA updates (it's software is frozen on that day). Since they are still enjoying the features of DA, they pay a reduced licensing fee. They need to pay a fee because they're still using DA, but the fee is reduced because they are not enjoying any new functionality or any other software pushes from DA.

They also take on a no support risk. If they introduce something on their EOL operating system that breaks DA, they need to fix it, pay someone to fix it, or upgrade their license and install a new non EOL server.

 

[cjd]

@BillyS I don't think it's a good idea to reduce the license fee just because it's EOL, that just encourages the behavior. And then DirectAdmin would also possibly need to maintain multiple types of licencing servers as things develop/change, causing more complexity/versions in the software and maintenance overhead for the developers. It's just not a good idea to run unmaintained software online and systems on auto pilot with no one maintaining them.

 

[jw00dy]

I have not been as active with this as I should have been and did not know the licensing was changing, now I'm locked out of my server and can't seem to get into anything.

Is there a way to get this to work for like 15 days while I get this stuff all moved?

I've opened a case with my license provider, and I'm sure they will open a case with DA directly, but thought I'd ask.

I tried setting the time back and that didn't work. Anyway to get this working so I can take backups and move the data to a new server?

 

[wtptrs]

Thanks for the feedback. This thread applies to all licenses types, so there is something telling about how often "lifetime" is mentioned. It seems like this license group prefers backwards rather than forwards functionality -- or maybe they are the minority, and just really vocal about it.



Next year will be the 20-year anniversary of the lifetime product so it might be a good time to shift it to licensing updates only. Due to the outrage in this thread we even introduced a legacy-codebase license flag to make this task easier.

Here's the real question: Is 20 years of constant development and over 200 builds (versions) a good life-span for a software product? Especially a one-time fee license that has been discontinued and hasn't been sold for years now.

One thing that everyone agreed on is static functionality even after active development (product lifetime) ends. Many people here pointed out things like Windows XP or even old DOS games. They understand such software is not developed any more, but they still expect it to install/run "forever."

Thoughts? Realistic expectations? Maybe a new thread about this, since the old licensing system has been gone a while now and we are having less people join this thread in a panic.

To be honest, this reads like you're planning to destroy Lifetime licenses sometime next year, essentially making them worthless by not providing software updates anymore, forcing current Lifetime license holders to buy an additional license for their servers, and using the 'outrage' in this thread as an excuse to push this through.

95% of this 'outrage' is just people being surprised/annoyed that their control panel stopped working without having received a notice in advance (because they didn't receive the email you sent out and/or don't read the forum), and then fixing the issue by upgrading or migrating to another server. Barring those, there's maybe five people being actually 'outraged'. I'm pretty sure if you would organise a poll, essentially no one would be in support of what you seem to be proposing.

 

[Zhenyapan]

When I bought lifetime licenses I planned to use them at least till declared 2038, so it is not fair to change the terms of the contract after it has been concluded. If DA decide to change their pricing system, it is their right, but this applies to all NEW clients/orders. And we are ready to sacrifice the lack of ProPack for our license pool, since not all customers need it and we provide licenses for our VPS for free. For those who need new features, we buy a separate license under the new tariff scale and include it in the cost of VPS.

 

[woktron]

If a OS is EOL I'd have absolutely no problem if DA drops support. If DA were to drop lifetime licenses I'd be far less of a happy camper. A promise is a promise after all:

Pricing changes/updates as of July 1, 2019 (No, we aren't raising our prices)

Hello everyone! As a result of the demand created by the cPanel pricing fiasco, we've been forced to drop our loss-leader "Lifetime Licenses" earlier than planned. These licenses were not sustainable to begin with, but with an community-minded & non-abusive customer base like ours, we've...

forum.directadmin.com

 

[factor]

no more version updates

Absolutely not. You all need to keep the software up to date for life. As in until the company goes bankrupt or is closed.

just really vocal about it.

The only really vocal piece I always hear is how some cant seem to move on from the Enhanced theme.

Is 20 years of constant development and over 200 builds (versions) a good life-span for a software product?

Depends if its a Lifetime License or not.. It goes on for life. You all choose to offer a Lifetime License not the clients you sold them to. When you made that business decision you all knew it was for Life. So to not offer the software called "Directadmin" for life would be breaking the contract.

Many people here pointed out things like Windows XP or even old DOS games.

Microsoft never offered those as a Lifetime license. Plus those are OS's not a Application.

Centos 7 goes EOL on June 30, 2024. At that point the server owner has a DA license. That DA version works on that server on that day (June 30, 2024). The owner now has a choice. They can update to a non-EOL operating system or they can keep running Centos 7.9 with the version of DA that works on June 30, 2024.

Nope that is not how it works. The Application is in constant development, new features bug fixes. The OS and the application are separate. The OS is EOL by the creators of the OS. DA cant control that. Also DA has to provide the application for life. To do that the code has to be updated for the New OS's.

they pay a reduced licensing fee.

There is no fee its a lifetime license. Monthly license can't run on old EOL OS either because of the same reason.

If a OS is EOL I'd have absolutely no problem if DA drops support.

They should, agreed. It actually been policy forever but was never enforced. Not sure why..

just people being surprised/annoyed that their control panel stopped working without having received a notice in advance

Totally agree. There should have been a real notice to all clients long before they did the License server switch.

When I bought lifetime licenses I planned to use them at least till declared 2038

I plan on them changing the date until they go bankrupt or close. Lifetime is lifetime of the company.

Ok I think I am caught up.

 

[Richard G]

Lifetime is lifetime of the company.

No that is not definately true. That depends on how the company declares lifetime. There are multiple options.
1.) Lifetime = lifetime of the company (which DA told us that was their interpretation)
2.) Lifetime = use current version for life (like XP and some applications or some forum software for example).
3.) Lifetime = software is usable and can be upgraded for life of the software, until the developpers declare the software EOL. Where you can keep using the software, but can't upgrade anymore. This happened with vB 3.8.x software, which had more 3.8.x. updates but couldn't be downloaded anymore by 3.8 lifetime customers because with 3.8.6 (or 7) it was declared end of life. And for these updates one had to get a nice license for the new 4.x version.
I vagely remember this one happening to something else.

So lifetime is what the company declares what lifetime for their customers means. However in DA's case, they declared it as option 1 in the past. So they can't change in between.
Stop selling them, yes. Stop supporting them, certainly not!

 

[BillyS]

Nope that is not how it works.

You need to read my post holistically, not pick apart every sentence. DA can certainly build something that checks and sees if a OS is EOL, then stop doing everything. The server is frozen in time. If the user choses to update something, they do it at their peril. If you read earlier posts, it was said this approach could apply to any type of license, I did not mentioned lifetime licenses anywhere in my post. If you had a lifetime license, then you dont pay anything anymore. Again, the day the OS goes EOL, that version of DA on the server remains exactly as it did. They can use it forever in its current state, thereby fulfilling the "lifetime" promise.

I dont know what DA actually promised in their lifetime license, but publicly traded companies that offer lifetime warrantees (which is essentially what was sold) need to set funds aside to pay for expenses associated with honoring those warranties.

By the way, I am trying to be objective here. I am meticulous about upgrading my server and constantly planning the next operating system upgrade.

There is no fee its a lifetime license.

Show me where in my post I referred to a lifetime license. Read earlier posts, this applies to all licenses.

 

[Richard G]

Again, the day the OS goes EOL, that version of DA on the server remains exactly as it did. They can use it forever in its current state, thereby fulfilling the "lifetime" promise.

No it doesn't.
That would mean that lifetime would be seen by DA as I mentioned as option 2. That is not the case, never has been the case as DA explained themselves somewhere in this thread. It's the DA version itself that can be used by lifetime updates, so like option 1.

As far as I've read from various complaints, older DA versions suddenly stopped working after the new licensing system was in to effect. Which is just why these customers had to upgrade their OS as well as their DA version.
And DA declared that this has always been the initial way how the lifetime license work. Same for other licenses as far as I'm concerned.

However, if some old system would keep working on some old DA version, that would be an nice side effect, but was not DA's declaration of lifetime. Just this point was all the confusion about in the discussion.

I know you weren't talking about lifetime licenses indeed, but just this statement is incorrect. If that had been the case, there hadn't been that much complaints from older DA version and EOL OS users.

need to set funds aside to pay for expenses associated with honoring those warranties.

Yes well, but that's their problem. But also the reason they stopped selling those lifetime licenses, which was quite understandable and a logic thing to do. The other license customers pay for the developments and the lifetime owners all benefit from these updates.
Except for the Pro Pack. But that's something new, so lifetime do not have any rights to have this and have to pay to get it. Which is a logical decision also.