What is the future for Legacy DirectAdmin License holders?

[floyd]

As far as I understood he said that it was pointless to try install MariaDB 10.11 because that would be blocked.
But my question is, suppose it is possible, then how would he fix the integration with DA.
I don't know if that is possible with custom scripts for example.

I took as its pointless to try because he would not be able to solve the DA problem with a newer MariaDB. I think he knows its not a problem to install a new MariaDB, DA cannot block that, its just that DA just won't work with it. I think he knows the problem is with DA and that is why it is pointless to try to install MariaDB because DA is not going to work with it anyway and that is why he gave up.

 

[Richard G]

could trick DA to think you are using older version.

In that case you don't need to trick. You can also really use a very old version, only problem is then that you have to find a way to update everything like php and apache etc. because the old update option doesn't work anymore. And no features and fixes since that DA old DA version in DA.
So not really something a serious hosting business would tend to do.

 

[marson]

I took as its pointless to try because he would not be able to solve the DA problem with a newer MariaDB. I think he knows its not a problem to install a new MariaDB, DA cannot block that, its just that DA just won't work with it. I think he knows the problem is with DA and that is why it is pointless to try to install MariaDB because DA is not going to work with it anyway and that is why he gave up.

Exactly as floyd said, I know how to install MariaDB, I even done this to test but without DA integration it is pointless. I as an admin and individual person can of course work with CLI but clients of hosting companies definitely can't or at least most of them.

 

[Richard G]

Well I think we're f*cked by a clear license agreement violation by DA. Check this thread:

MySQL 8.0.37 and new MySQL 8.4 LTS

Today, Oracle released updates to the MySQL database to version 8.0.37, along with a new version in the LTS branch, MySQL 8.4. https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/8.0/en/news-8-0-37.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/8.4/en/news-8-4-0.html Will DirectAdmin has plans to...

forum.directadmin.com

@fln said here it was a new feature because of 8.4 engine integration, but that is in no way true.
Those answers are deleted with mine to keep the release thread clean, which is understandable.

The license agreement clearly says "lifetime updates and upgrades". New features are new things. This is not a new thing. Upgrades always have required integrations in the DA systems where needed and belongs to the basics of a control panel.

At this time I was still talking with @DirectAdmin Sales (Mark) on this, and just this week I asked him what would happen in Mysql 9 would come out, since 8.0 will be EOL in 2026 just as MariaDB 10.4 will be. Because I expected a new Mysql release later this year or in 2025 due to the EOL in 2026.
This was yesterday evening!
And the answer was that there was nothing sure yet at this point, and maybe other cutbacks were required, which in our insights would be more in the line of the license agreement.

And then now suddenly this is said?

Support for MySQL 8.4 will not be available for legacy licenses.

I'm really starting to wonder where this is coming from so fast, since the answer I got yesterday evening, with even a totally different idea but I won't go into that.

I won't go in further with the talks I have with Mark in the ticket support, amongst which were various idea's exchanged about how to prolonge with the lifetime license and try to keep off violant cutbacks and idea's how to make that possible.

But this is a violant cutback, and a clear license violation as upgrade integrations are just part of upgrades, those are not new features.

Having a database either MySQL or MariaDB is just mandatory for a good hosting company. Robbin us from our lifetime license usage this way, by not having a basic LAMP option will have consequences.

 

[floyd]

This is not about abuse of lifetime licenses anymore. They can handle the abuse in other ways. I have refrained from posting on social media for now but the time may come soon. I have always been a very vocal supporter of DA until now. Now I am actively looking for another solution.

 

[woktron]

"

Well I think we're f*cked by a clear license agreement violation by DA. Check this thread:

MySQL 8.0.37 and new MySQL 8.4 LTS

Today, Oracle released updates to the MySQL database to version 8.0.37, along with a new version in the LTS branch, MySQL 8.4. https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/8.0/en/news-8-0-37.html https://dev.mysql.com/doc/relnotes/mysql/8.4/en/news-8-4-0.html Will DirectAdmin has plans to...

forum.directadmin.com

"Not open for further replies." says it all.

I've always enjoyed your glass half full, positive attitude - even if that positivity was not always necessarily warranted in my view.

It must be said that the writing has been on the wall for a while now that the same would happen with MySQL as well. You can't really be surprised about any of this?

And I don't think that we are done here either, I suspect PHP 9 is next to go, while I presume that they leave mail functionality alone for now, because how else will they communicate with us about that next batch of license changes! Oh snap, that's right - no mails have ever been sent in this regard.

I'm generally a bit more cynical and call a spade a spade. At no time did I have any faith whatsoever that DA would backtrack and reverse their decision. And even if they did reverse their decision, I do not think that we'd want to continue to work with a company that shows such a disregard for their clientele.

While there is surely some truth to it, the license abuse angle is only a convenient excuse - I do agree.

After all these months there is also still no clarification as to what will happen to monthly code 500/legacy vps licenses, which is frankly rediculous.

 

[Zhenyapan]

also when we bought our licenses mariadb didn't exist - but they implemented it, they implemented each LTS mysql 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, 8 maria 5.5, 10, 10.1 - 10.6 - all they was separate LTS branches and was integrated with DA without issues, now they decided to change rules
It was same 10 years ago as today, someone bought lifetime and didn't pay monthly and someone buy regular license. Now all new customers using monthly licenses - so why you do this with old loyal clients?

 

[floyd]

I wouldn't be surprised if they close this thread as well or even delete it since its inconvenient.

 

[Richard G]

I've always enjoyed your glass half full, positive attitude - even if that positivity was not always necessarily warranted in my view.

Thank you, indeed I tried to keep positive and I understand not everybody was thinking the same way.

The reason the Mysql thread was closed, was because more people started replying and it would become a new discussion thread. Which we already have and we can talk here. So it's a rather logic decision to close that thread, I most likely also would have done it as one doesn't want discussions about cutbacks all over the place. So I don't see harm there.

As for Mysql being cut back, that still came to me as a suprise because at the background, as stated, I was still talking with Mark about solutions and specifically asked what would happen if a new Mysql came out. And it wasn't decided yet (yesterday evening), and there were even other idea's which might be better and keep the license agreement in tact.

Which is ofcourse why I'm now waiting for answer, as this is clearly a license agreement violation. They need money, but this is not the way to do it and it won't help either. Also my collegue which in fact is having the servers, will rather look for other or free solutions than using DA.
It's too small a company to pay 15/month fee's even per license (he has 7), from which several often are not used for a longer time.

they implemented each LTS mysql 5.5, 5.6, 5.7, 8

Exactly, so it's not a new feature, it's part of the upgrade process which we would have lifetime. Indeed same as 10 years ago.
I can understand at a certain point, too many lifetime license are out there and it becomes too expensive, but there are other ways to cut back instead of violating our license and leaving us with no database alternative.

 

[floyd]

So it's a rather logic decision to close that thread

I agree. I am just saying that nothing surprises me at this point.

 

[Richard G]

I agree.

No problem. That part of the reply of me was pointed as reply to Woktron.

 

[woktron]

The reason the Mysql thread was closed, was because more people started replying and it would become a new discussion thread. Which we already have and we can talk here. So it's a rather logic decision to close that thread, I most likely also would have done it as one doesn't want discussions about cutbacks all over the place. So I don't see harm there.

Understandable and not a biggie in itself, but this is not how I would've played that given the circumstances.

Again we are left with a guessing game, with ONE obscure post - brief sentence actually - hidden away in the forum "detailing" about their next steps to force lifetime licenses into obsolescence. Had you not mentioned it, most users here wouldn't have been the wiser.

Especially given the importance for many of us, it is ultimately their responsibility (and as much as I appreciate it not yours ) to clearly announce this somewhere, to be clear about their intentions going forward, anything at this point. Even WHMCS had the guts to tell their customers what their intentions were and they did not beat around the bush. In this thread would be useful, but really it does deserve a more formal announcement. Instead they chose the path of least resistance by doing absolutely nothing.

Their reasons for being passive (aggressive) are of course part monetary as they try to delay users with lifetime licenses from moving away as much as they can (besides lifetime licenses we also have monthly licenses that will also be terminated when we move to greener pastures).

And it wasn't decided yet (yesterday evening)

I have a sneaking suspicion that all of this has been decided quite a while ago. It is perhaps more a matter of setting a timeline and version cutoff point. If this does not achieve the desired result I'm sure that they've already decided what to cutoff next. Frankly, at this point I would not put too much value into whatever information DA is feeding you.

The abuse issue will be near impossible to fully root out unfortunately. For a while at least DA have been making individual agreements with hosts. I have no idea of the scale, it may only be a few edge cases, it may not be. But to make matters worse, they do not have a full overview of this either. It would appear that they do not have (or don't have access to - surely there are backups?) any communications with clients prior to 2014 I believe it was. I won't even get into how silly that is, but there you have it. This also means that the potential to suspend licenses that are used in line with these "lost" individual agreements and are thus used legitimately is there as well. At least in that regard DA are doing the right thing, they do seem quite restrained with suspending accounts.

 

[Richard G]

Had you not mentioned it, most users here wouldn't have been the wiser.

I'm wondered about that too, as I specifically advised to do a decent announcement of any further cutback or other important change. They are not obliged to use my advises, but it's really not the way to treat your customers. Even if they don't bring in money at the time. But that's the reason they payed more in the beginning. To never have to pay again, als the website also stated, next to lifetime updates and upgrades.

Also I haven't got an answer yet, but they are busy so it will come later on. But I've got the feeling there wasn't any team deliberation about this decision in any way.
Which ofcourse then would explain the lack of announcement. I still want to wait for that answer, but I'm certainly not happy at the moment because I feel kind of deceived now. Maybe not quite justified, but this kind of difference in answers I got, makes me logically doubt on who's making decisions nowadays.
But scaring away lifetime license holders by violating their own license agreement and earlier promising statements on the forum is most certainly not the way to fix things.

 

[LawsHosting]

I'm not all that bothered seeing I've closed my business, I will probably get a "Lite" license, or even jump ship...... With that said, I do agree that this decision is very savage and we all bought lifetimes so we didn't have to keep paying, obviously. However, seeing that this debacle is mainly based on income, even with a discount, I bet most will jump ship because of how all this has been handled..... It was Maria 10.whatever, and now we know MySQL 8.4 will be affected too... It doesn't look good from a trust issue - they could even raise prices in future on the standard licenses, who knows...

PS. I wasn't making any profit from my business, this was mainly why I closed business.

 

[netswitch]

I was still talking with Mark about solutions

Really wondering if there is a real wish to find solutions as this thread is one year old and nothing was proposed, no feedback was asked on a potential proposal, so I guess they are happy with the situation.
Also it would seem from this that some DirectAdmin team members have a more clear view of the future policy than the founders which also makes me wonder.

 

[ThinkBased]

I'm wondered about that too, as I specifically advised to do a decent announcement of any further cutback or other important change. They are not obliged to use my advises, but it's really not the way to treat your customers. Even if they don't bring in money at the time. But that's the reason they payed more in the beginning. To never have to pay again, als the website also stated, next to lifetime updates and upgrades.

Also I haven't got an answer yet, but they are busy so it will come later on. But I've got the feeling there wasn't any team deliberation about this decision in any way.
Which ofcourse then would explain the lack of announcement. I still want to wait for that answer, but I'm certainly not happy at the moment because I feel kind of deceived now. Maybe not quite justified, but this kind of difference in answers I got, makes me logically doubt on who's making decisions nowadays.
But scaring away lifetime license holders by violating their own license agreement and earlier promising statements on the forum is most certainly not the way to fix things.

You might not be as crucial to DirectAdmin as you think. There might come a time when you realize that your efforts to make a significant impact haven’t turned out as you expected. It's a hard truth but you will face it, soon or later!

 

[Richard G]

as you think.

Well I don't need to worry about anything because you got it totally wrong there. Because I know for a fact that I'm in not crucial to DA in any way and I also know I don't have any guarantee that any effort made might have any effect.
But since they asked for ideas, there might be a very slight chance for lifetime license holders. So I don't expect anything.
I'm just trying like a few others do. We can also just rest and do nothing, it's everybody's choice. I rather try.
If succeeding, then it's a good thing, if not, then no luck.

The only people crucial to DA are paying customers, which I'm not one of since I've got lifetime licenses.

 

[netswitch]

The only people crucial to DA are paying customers, which I'm not one of since I've got lifetime licenses.

Which you might maybe become under better conditions ?

 

[Richard G]

@netswitch Maybe, but then I would be still a very very small customer.

 

[floyd]

"A special offer for legacy license holders -- all the benefits of a retail Standard license, at a heavily discounted price."

So does that mean I can use the license for my shared hosting servers or is this still for VPS and dedicated servers?